Clay Irregularities

[6318]

My business is fairly new and until this weekend, all my clients have had the 'complete shabang'...

I had my first client this weekend whose complaint was a defect (like keying) down the side of her car which she wanted to remove. She didn't want much 'fancy' stuff, but did want a wash and wax--with which I usually include a claying.

After (successfully) removing the defect (I'll post pics later today) I started claying the hood. Apparently the hood had some oxidation (or whatever you want to call 'clear coat bad stuff') that was much worse than first appeared. So it seems the claying improved it, but irregularly (yes, I know how to clay properly )...ya know what I mean?
So, it looked horrible...even though she didn't pay for buffing I couldn't return the car like that...so I attacked it with #83...and darnit if the hood doesn't look beautiful now...

I've seen similar posts about 'clay streaking' that could be similar to my predicament (sp?)...how do ya'll handle this?...do you reserve clay for buffing packages, or what?

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

If the paint had enough oxidation that the clay left streaks, you would have most likely had streaks using even just a wax without the clay.

Part of the problem when people want "only" a simple wax job etc. is that you will, as you discovered, have to still buff certain areas. You can not let the car go out in a half-complete condition as your reputation is on the line. That is why I only do what Mike calls "Completes". I tell everyone that I will ONLY do it this way. Then they have to make the decision.

If I were you, and this is only a suggestion, I would establish a bare minumum that you will do for a car, and do not go below it.

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Hi 6318,

In cases where the finish is textured due to oxidation or overspray, you clay bar will tend to grab because it cannot slide. This makes claying more difficult. I'll bet it clays pretty easy now, after you machine buffed it after claying!

Here is a truck with White Paint Overspray all over the outside of the entire truck.



Here's a shot of the hood,



Here's close up, all of those White Dots are dots of white paint.


Here's a little "Test Spot" I did yesterday,



Take my word for it, with this much overspray bonded to the finish, the clay has a hard time sliding over the finish. But, as soon as you clear out a little spot, you can then begin to work outward from that spot and the claying becomes faster and easier.

This car has overspray everywhere, he's a close-up of the windshield,



Should be a good test for Meguiar's Quik Clay System and ColorX!

Mike

[6318]

That was exactly the problem I was having...I thought I had rocks in my towels when I was drying it, it was so rough

...and now, yes the hood feels like glass...


...so, is it unsafe to buff when that rough?...do I need to clay it smooth first?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by 6318
[BSo, is it unsafe to buff when that rough?...do I need to clay it smooth first? [/B]

If you can, clay the finish until it is smooth, or mostly smooth first, that's the best way to go. If the paint you’re working on is severely oxidized, the finish will not become smooth until after you have used a paint cleaner to remove the dead, oxidized paint and other below surface defects.

If your working by hand, it will take a lot of effort to remove the bonded contaminants by hand using a paint cleaner first, thus the reason for using clay first. Clay is better for removing most above surface contaminants easier and faster than a paint cleaner.

If you working with a PC, the foam pad and your choice of paint cleaner are just too gentle to remove the bonded contaminants and your foam pad will tend to merely glide over them.

If you are working with a rotary buffer, if you use a foam cutting pad and a compound you can remove some of the bonded contaminants, but the foam pad will still have a tendency to glide over the bonded contaminants with the toughest bond to the finish. If you’re using a wool pad, the coarse, fibers that make up the wool pad are very aggressive and should easily remove all contaminants bonded to the finish. The problem with buffing with wool pads, (be they cutting or finishing pads), is that each fiber that makes up the wool pad has a tendency to instill it's own scratch, so the result is a smooth surface, but one that is filled with hundreds of thousands of scratches that show up as buffer swirls or holograms.


So in the end, the best way to remove bonded contaminants is to do so at the claying step, then advance to the paint cleaning step.

Remember, clay bars are not intended for removing oxidation, only above surface contaminants. So if the surface is extremely oxidized, stained, etched, etc. you will not see a dramatic improvement in smoothness until after the cleaning step.

For finishes in good condition but with bonded contaminants, you are use to seeing the smoothness restored immediately after claying, that's because the integrity of the finish is still intact.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[Rockpick]

I look forward to seeing your end result Mike. The paint is seemingly ALL OVER that truck and will surely be a task to clay.

RP

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Rockpick,

Yes, this car will be a challenge. This is they type of detail where your either going to be hero or a zero. The owner is bringing it over early this coming Saturday morning. So I should be able to post some pictures by Saturday night.

Mike