Liability Waivers???

[OctaneGuy]

Do any of the pros here use a liability waiver? What about E&O insurance? Not sure if that applies here, but I used to carry it when I did event video production and I got it through a trade association that made it along with $1Million dollar liability coverage somewhat affordable.

If you look at my thread on the 68 Chevy Camaro, the 2nd to last post

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10293&perpage=10&pagenumber=3

I ran into a situation where I thought I caused a defect, only to realize later (glad to take pictures before working) that it was a pre-existing condition. Had the client not been "understanding", I could have had to take the blame for this.

Any thoughts?

[Five Star]

Re: Liability Waivers???

Originally posted by OctaneGuy
Do any of the pros here use a liability waiver? What about E&O insurance? Not sure if that applies here, but I used to carry it when I did event video production and I got it through a trade association that made it along with $1Million dollar liability coverage somewhat affordable.

If you look at my thread on the 68 Chevy Camaro, the 2nd to last post

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10293&perpage=10&pagenumber=3

I ran into a situation where I thought I caused a defect, only to realize later (glad to take pictures before working) that it was a pre-existing condition. Had the client not been "understanding", I could have had to take the blame for this.

Any thoughts?

A complete surface analysis with the customer along prior to service allows you to find and document 95% of pre-existing conditions.

You should be held accountable for any damage that is caused by your work.

Photographing the vehicle prior to working on it gives you the chance to see what you missed ( the other 5%),

alot of digital cameras let you zoom in on the lcd screen, so you wont have to wait until you load it on your computer.

The biggest thing that I've come across is that detailing a car enhances the visibility of Rock Chips, So I always forewarn the customer of this and see if they want them filled in, which is an upsale.

It also gives you the chance to upsell a clear bra install to prevent future chips.

but to answer your question I dont have them sign a waiver, I've never had a customer come back claiming I've damaged something because i do the walkaround with them

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

I agree 100% with Five Star. I use a form that I got off another forum where someone was sharing it for free distribution. It's an excel spreadsheet layout, but works great as a printed form to use with the customer.

Here's a screenshot (I'll re-host the file for MOL in a bit; just don't want to break any rules here by posting the link):

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Here's the file for those who want it:

http://www.hahn-on-the.net/professional/detailing/checkin_shared.xls

[OctaneGuy]

Thanks guys!

[sneek]

awsome !!! thanks so much!

[mirrorfinishman]

No, I do not use a liability waiver.

No, I do not do a surface analysis with the customer along prior to service.

No, I do not find and document pre-existing conditions.

The reason I have never needed to take any of these protective measures is because I only have customers that I can trust. I would never do any work for someone I could not trust. Been right so far.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by mirrorfinishman
No, I do not use a liability waiver.

No, I do not do a surface analysis with the customer along prior to service.

No, I do not find and document pre-existing conditions.

The reason I have never needed to take any of these protective measures is because I only have customers that I can trust. I would never do any work for someone I could not trust. Been right so far.

With all due respect, I think you're taking an awfully big gamble by not using a waiver - even with customers "you can trust."

I am much like you in that most (if not all) of my customer base comes from word-of-mouth, so it's either friends, their families, friends of friends, of friends, and so on. All people who I am in one way or another social with and feel I can trust.

However, I've also had some of these "friends" stab me in the back, or try to get me to do things for them that I'm not willing to do (like blaming paint defects on me and trying to force me to fix them). One example was a guy who said I put a bunch of chips into his hood; even after explaining to him that the chips would be more visible once I polished the vehicle out, he still said I should fix them free of charge since he didn't notice them before I started. Ever since then, I do the walkaround and have customers sign, just as a safety precaution to cover my own behind.

I also find that an added bonus to doing a walk-around with the customer, is that it forces them to see just how bad of shape their car is in before I get to work. Not only does it give them a good wake-up call when I point out all the little flaws to them, and explain how they likely got there, but it also affords me a chance to judge which defects and areas of the vehicle are most important to them as an individual customer. This way, I can focus my efforts on the highest priority items, and do whatever I can to the rest depending on what time allows.

[Superior Shine]

The only wavier I have is for engine cleaning. I don't have one for existing damage.

We also do a finish and interior evaluation with the client. I will point out what we can and can't do. Damage is pointed out and for the last 16 years I have been in biz that has been good enough.

[mirrorfinishman]

Originally posted by Shiny Lil Detlr
With all due respect, I think you're taking an awfully big gamble by not using a waiver - even with customers "you can trust."

There is a big difference between gambling and taking a well calculated risk.

Gambling is what you do when you go to a casino and play a game of chance, such as blackjack or roulette.

A well calculated risk is when you know you have done your homework and taken the necessary time to look at something from every possible angle before making a decision. After all, being in business is all about taking risks.

Twenty years ago when I started my own detailing business, I decided that if I was going to be my own boss and be in my own business, then I would want to only do work for people that I could trust. Sure there have been a few people every couple of years who I have had to avoid. However, I basically only do work for people I can trust.

Personally, I think my customers would be offended if I did a surface analysis to document pre-existing conditions and demanded that they sign a liability waiver, every time I detailed their vehicle.

This subject reminds me of a story one of my customer's recently shared. This fellow owns a dry cleaners and it just so happens that one of his customers who is a police officer bounced a check the last time he had his police uniform cleaned. My customer went on to explain how the next time the officer came in to drop off his uniform, he was promptly escorted to the door and told that it would be better if he took his business somewhere else. As you can clearly see, the owner of the dry cleaners knew when he had a customer he could no longer trust and he was not going to take a chance with another bounced check. True story.

When you are in business, it's up to you to decide who you are going to trust and who you are going to take a chance with. For me, I have chosen to be very selective about who I'm going to work for. That way, it makes being in business a lot more enjoyable.

[Superior Shine]

Originally posted by mirrorfinishman
No, I do not use a liability waiver.

No, I do not do a surface analysis with the customer along prior to service.

No, I do not find and document pre-existing conditions.

The reason I have never needed to take any of these protective measures is because I only have customers that I can trust. I would never do any work for someone I could not trust. Been right so far.

I completely disagree with that approach. I get new customers all the time and have no idea who I can trust and who I can't.

Business is business. When someone calls on my services it is my job as a pro. Detailer to go over their vehicle with them and make sure the customer knows exactly the condition of the exterior as well as the interior. This gives me and opportunity to explain what we can and can't do for their vehicle and to point out damage if needed. The customer then has a chance to let me know what he/she wants done.

I fill out a work order and the client signs it. The information on my work order tells the customer what services we promise to do to the best of our ability and I get a promise to be paid when the work is completed.

When we have completed the service we go over all the areas again. I know right there if the client is happy with our work and then I expect to get paid.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by mirrorfinishman
There is a big difference between gambling and taking a well calculated risk.

Gambling is what you do when you go to a casino and play a game of chance, such as blackjack or roulette.

A well calculated risk is when you know you have done your homework and taken the necessary time to look at something from every possible angle before making a decision. After all, being in business is all about taking risks.

Twenty years ago when I started my own detailing business, I decided that if I was going to be my own boss and be in my own business, then I would want to only do work for people that I could trust. Sure there have been a few people every couple of years who I have had to avoid. However, I basically only do work for people I can trust.

Personally, I think my customers would be offended if I did a surface analysis to document pre-existing conditions and demanded that they sign a liability waiver, every time I detailed their vehicle.

This subject reminds me of a story one of my customer's recently shared. This fellow owns a dry cleaners and it just so happens that one of his customers who is a police officer bounced a check the last time he had his police uniform cleaned. My customer went on to explain how the next time the officer came in to drop off his uniform, he was promptly escorted to the door and told that it would be better if he took his business somewhere else. As you can clearly see, the owner of the dry cleaners knew when he had a customer he could no longer trust and he was not going to take a chance with another bounced check. True story.

When you are in business, it's up to you to decide who you are going to trust and who you are going to take a chance with. For me, I have chosen to be very selective about who I'm going to work for. That way, it makes being in business a lot more enjoyable.

I totally understand and agree with this; I do respect the fact that it works for your business the way you're doing it.

However, for my business and with the way I approach it, I never find a problem arising from using a form. So, to each his own I guess.