black audi a4 with holograms :(

[psuvette]

over the weekend i used a rotary buffer with the meguiars compounding pad and 3m fine rubbing compound. i then moved on to some medallion paint cleaner, #9 and, 3m polishing liquid for dark colored cars using a polishing pad.

i have bad holograms, and the worst part is that until i go home in a few weeks, the only tools i have to fix it are by hand!

is there anyway to minimize or reduce the holograms by hand?

also, do i need a high powered DA or can i reduce and remove them with a rotary and a low powered orbital?

please help! i have many things at my disposal:

scratch-x
#9
medallion paint cleaner
pure meguiars polish (step 2)
nxt tech wax

[LiquidBlack]

Sir, you're going to need to use the scratchX.

Put some on (in a small area), work it in hard for awhile, wipe. Repeat.

I have a feeling, though, you can remove these defects with an orbital.

Quick question, though, why did you compound your audi?

[Murr1525]

Yeah, sounds like a job for scratchX, and some terry cloth.

Just some reading for you:

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

[psuvette]

well, unfortunately i don't have an orbital with me....i live in an apartment and i don't have that stuff near me! it drives me nuts each day....

by the way, the 3m rubbing compound that is sold in pep boys is very very light. i had some etching that i was trying to remove and i think my hood was repainted and they didn't do a very good finishing job on it (i bought it used).

i only used the rubbing compound on the hood. the holograms must have come from either the polishing pad with medallion, #9, or something else, because its all over the car, and again, i only compounded the hood.

has anyone tried that cordless orbital that meguiars sells? i was thinking of picking one of those up for situations like this, but if it isn't strong enough to remove small defects like this, it might not even be worth my while....

please let me know! it kills me to see her like this!

[LiquidBlack]

The cordless orbital, from what I have heard, lacks the power to remove swirls and blemishes, but is great for applying waxes.

Might want to get yourself some extension cords sir, and make friends with a neighbor who will let you run your line out their window or something.

[Accumulator]

The repainted hood will be much softer than the factory Spies Hecker paint. The problem was probably from your rotary technique and/or not using the right step-down product after the 3M compound (which I've used on Audis many times). But then there are a lot of different 3M compounds too.

Not sure what to tell you about doing it by hand. I'd use a rotary and then the PC.

[Pete-FWA]

3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze is sort of a repeat of the #9 Swirl Remover product.

How experienced with the rotary are you? Their products work a bit differently than Meguiar's. Their pads don't interchange well with Meguiar's products, at least in most of the situations I've tested them.

Depending on your top coat material, that FPPG can instill marks with a rotary, even with the pad fully lubricated with product. I've used it extensively over a range of finishes. It's not fluke luck: the product really does work that way in some situations.

Any orbital, with the nature of it's action, isn't strong enough to remove swirls. Even those big, heavy Gem Industries machines with 11" pads just don't do it. Try a search on the site for the differences in orbital, DA, and rotary.

Depending on how bad your results were and the condition of your paint, you may well be able to reduce the problems with the rotary, but if you're really looking for a 100% finish, it will require some DA work before your LSP.

The only time I use an orbital is for application of LSP's.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze is sort of a repeat of the #9 Swirl Remover product.

How experienced with the rotary are you? Their products work a bit differently than Meguiar's...Depending on your top coat material, that FPPG can instill marks.. I've used it extensively over a range of finishes... the product really does work that way in some situations...

I never liked the FPPG myself. Some 3M products just don't work well for me, at least not with the amount of practice I bothered with. Sure didn't work for a certain paint shop that used it on the last job I let them do either :rolleyes

Other 3M stuff works great, but again, that's just for me. Seems like the choice of product makes a big difference but then I could say that about any line.

And yeah, 3M stuff works fine with Meguiar's pads, but I don't care for 3M pads with Meguiar's products. Actually, I don't really care for 3M pads at all but I haven't given them much of a chance.

psuvette- If you're not gonna use a rotary/PC/etc. type of machine you might as well try doing it by hand.

[psuvette]

here's an update:

accumulator: i've found that the 3m light rubbing compound (39002 i believe) does work fairly well at removing defects and instilling some nice vibrant paint. i still have some light defects that it didn't take out. i used the cutting pad from meguiars with it; can you suggest a different way to go?

pete: i have worked on a few cars with the rotary, but i always tried to be gentle. the results were satisfactory from a standpoint that the paint looked new and shiny, yet, i wasn't really able to remove certain damage that had been done to the paint. again though, i didn't want to go too far and create problems. this is the first time that i've gotten holograms though.

it sounds as though i should pick up a DA so that i can really make my finish come to life and remove swirls and holograms. the more i'm finding out is that an orbital really isn't good for anything other than applying and removing waxes without giving your arm a workout. do you suggest that i pick up a 7336sp (perhaps from lowes) so that i can do some finishing touches on my paint? would using a DA with a polishing and finishing pad and #9 remove the holograms and hide any other micro-marring?

overall i did re-wash the car last night, and i applied scratch-x by hand to the hood. unfortunately i didn't have a camera to show the difference, but the side that i used scratch-x on looked like the paint was from a different car when compared to the side that had not yet been worked. i am very happy with the results since they were by hand.

as an aside, why doesn't meguiars offer some waxes that are designed to fill in small chips in the hood? i know it seems like a cheap fix, but especially on german cars, the front paint seems to get very small 'pits' from road debris that is easy to hide. i don't really want to hide marks like this, but repaints are extremely expensive!

[Accumulator]

Sounds like you might be doing OK with the Scratch-x.

If you want to approach it the way we were originally discussing:

Now that I know which product you're using (39002) I can maybe be of more help. The 39002 is basically the same as the PI-III RC (05933) that I use all the time.

If you can't get defects out with 39002/rotary/Meguiar's cutting pad, I'd live with the defects. Really. If they're still there after a few passes I'd start to think about the long term ramifications of taking off more paint.

After using that RC by rotary, I'll then do the 39002 again with the PC and a polishing pad. Then I step down from the RC to the (now discontinued) PI-III MG (05937) again with the Cyclo/PC, then inspect in sun for holograms.

Somebody with greater knowledge than I possess can probably point out Meguiar's products that are equivalent. I'd guess the progression would be #83 after the RC, then #80. But no more cutting pads, stick with polishing pads until it's nearly perfect (when you could switch to a finishing pad).

FWIW, I've gone from 05933 (again, about the same as your 39002) rotary/polishing to same thing with the Cyclo/polishing pads, then to #80 by PC/polishing and it worked fine on GM black paint.

IMO you're just making too big a jump from the 39002/cutting. You're gonna need more intermediate steps or at least I do. The #9 is almost certainly too mild for anything you're doing. Whenever you're tempted to get that, find some #80 instead

[Pete-FWA]

39002 used to be Perfect It II Rubbing Compound, the kind of orange-tan colored product, not Perfect It III. Did this change recently?

In face, all of 3M's "Professional Formula Show Car Finish" products, the 39XXX series, were repackaged and renumbered existing products. The numbers may correspond to what many of the Meguiar's faithful are familiar with seeing.

Examples:

39034 Gloss Enhancer Meguiar's #34 Final Inspection
39002 Perfect It II Rub Cpd Meguiar's #2 Fine Cut Cleaner
39007 Imperal Hand Glaze Meguiar's #7 Show Care Glaze
39000 Car Wash Soap Meguiar's #00 High-Tech Wash
39026 P-It Show Car Wax Meguiar's #26 High-Tech Yellow Wax

This "new" line came out around 1998 and seemed to be a direct shot at those of us who were working with Meguiar's products. My 3M rep told me it was the easiest way of getting their people to sell against Meguiar's. Just found that interesting that a company would be so directly interested in trying such an approach.

[psuvette]

i've found that the 39002 isn't really all that strong. in fact on the audi forums, a lot of people use the mernenza "twins", and i believe that the mernenza power polish is far stronger than the 39002. Though, I do have some #2 and i've found the 39002 to be a little bit stronger than the #2. and again, I do believe that the hood was repainted because i noticed very faint traces of what people call 'spider veins' in the painting business, i think.

i actually went 39002(cutting), to medallion premium paint cleaner(polish pad), to #9...and i thought that was being progressive enough

in any case, it sounds like i need to pick up a DA. i have a rotary and an orbital, so i guess thats my next and hopefully final piece of detailing equipment...

with a DA i should really be able to clean up the paint in terms of finishing quality, right?

[Accumulator]

I find subtle but existent functional differences between the PI-II FCRC and the PI-III RC. Different abrasives for one thing (nasty silica-based stuff in the PI-II, don't breath the dust).

I haven't tried the Menzerna PP, so I can't compare them. But my bottle of #2 (previous, rotary-only formula) is more aggressive than either of the two 3M compounds we're discussing. Which reminds me, IMO you oughta pick up some of the new formula #2. I think it's a great way to go now that the PI-III RC is getting hard to find. Maybe that's the one you have now, or maybe we're just having different experiences with the same products, that happens.

Yeah, get a PC or a Cyclo. It's a great step-down tool for use after the rotary. If I could only have one tool, it'd be the Cyclo (and that's all I did have for many years).

[psuvette]

what is a cyclo?

everyone on all forums that i've ever read seem to always preach about their PC 7424 or 7336....you prefer the 'cyclo'?

[Accumulator]

LINK

My take differs from that of some other detailers. FWIW, I have two PCs (both a 7424 and a 7336) and two Cyclos. Years of experience with both types of machine.

My $0.02- The PC was designed as a sander. It's only fairly recently (maybe twenty some years or so) that it's been used to polish vehicles. Using foam pads, which weigh much more than a sheet of sandpaper, can limit the ability of the PC to do the full "dual action" motion as opposed to just "jiggling" when you apply some pressure. That's not an issue with the Cyclo. The Cyclo was designed to polish vehicles, specifically it was originally designed to polish aluminum airplanes and travel trailers. It was used to polish cars/trucks for decades before people used the PC for this. IMO (and it's just that, *my* opinion), the Cyclo does the job better and is far morre pleasant to use. It's also a more durable machine, there can't be much question about that- the Cyclos virtually *never* break down even after decades of commercial use. Mine was fine after 20 years (some of it commercial use) while my PCs (no commerical use) occasionally need rebuilt.

Gee, don't I sound like a shill for Cyclo

The Cyclo has more power than a PC. The PC will come close if you use it with 4" pads. The PC will get into some areas/deal with some contours better than the Cyclo will. The PC has variable speeds, the Cylco is fixed. Beyond these differences it's just personal preference.