Suggestions on Avoiding Dealer Installed Swirls

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Superior Shine
Mike,

It is very difficult to match paint exactly.

Hi Joe,

I understand that except I thought through the use of computers and todays hi-tech paint mixing stations that a quality shops could get very close to exact?

Blending as a way of making-up for only getting close isn't a very good option considering the cost of new cars, trucks and s.u.v.'s these days.

We have a scrape in our new Pilot's driver's side fender. In order to repair it, all of the shops we went to wanted to squirt the entire panel that the scrape has effected. This means painting from the rear fender all the way up the roof line and down the A-pillar.

I myself don't trust a perfect color match and think over time a person will be able to stand back and see two different colors of black on the Pilot. I also didn't want to re-paint a huge chunk of the the car for a scrape that is about 2 inches long when the factory paint this would affect is perfectly fine.

I understand why they blend, I just hate to see perfectly good factory paint sacrificed for the repair.

[Superior Shine]

I agree, for durablity nothing beats a factory baked finish.

[BJClarke001]

Mike,

You mean, it is too big of a job for ScratchX to fix your 2 inch scratch on your SUV ???

Just razzin ya. I know exactlly what you mean. Just like myself, I get fenders painted and the whole hood painted for a dent that looks like a door ding and a 4 inch scratch that has a dent that runs the length of the scratch. I was so proud of the Ford Finish I had and hope to retain it when it comes back. But as I said earlier in this post. These guys tweek these finishes after the tranport process of the vehicle provides a scratch/ding. For all I know, my entire vehicle has been re-paint all over already. But a trained eye could spot this fact. Good luck and of course I will keep ya posted on my progress on this thread.

[CARSGroup]

Hi Guys,
A blend is a necessary evil in refinishing metalic or pearl colors - if done correctly, as stated by another member already, you should not be able to see the blended area at all. The reason for the blend isn't because they can't mix the color close enough - it is because they cannot apply it in exactly the same manner as it was in the factory using robots and such.... Metalics/pearls are very tricky in that if you move the gun faster or slower, closer or farther from the surface, more or less pressure, more or less thinner/reducer etc.. etc.. these factors will make a major shift in the color and flake pattern that is layed down. If you filled your paint gun with color - then painted a panel with all those variables I listed above you would see the panel itself looks very varied in hue and tone and flake pattern - even though it was all done with the same paint at the same time.
As far as the detail goes - I have fought with many body shops about how they return the cars to the Dealers I service - they all say they are not in the detail business (at least they think they are not, a high quality shop knows they ARE in the detail business) they are just going to "level the paint and remove defects" using a high speed buffer and an old tired wool pad - depending on the type of paint they used, the catalyst, and the film build, you will have to wait 30-90 days to get the swirls out of your finish and detail/wax your car correctly.

You may want to tell then NOT to buff your entire car - I have seen some shops do this as a lazy mans way of trying to remove over-spray that ends up all over the car just from being in and around the bodyshop environment.

Good Luck!!!!! let us know how it turns out.

~Lenny

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by ProTouchNJ
Hi Guys,
A blend is a necessary evil in refinishing metallic or pearl colors - if done correctly, as stated by another member already, you should not be able to see the blended area at all. The reason for the blend isn't because they can't mix the color close enough - it is because they cannot apply it in exactly the same manner as it was in the factory using robots and such.... Metallics/pearls are very tricky in that if you move the gun faster or slower, closer or farther from the surface, more or less pressure, more or less thinner/reducer etc.. etc.. these factors will make a major shift in the color and flake pattern that is laid down. If you filled your paint gun with color - then painted a panel with all those variables I listed above you would see the panel itself looks very varied in hue and tone and flake pattern - even though it was all done with the same paint at the same time.

Thanks Lenny for clearing this up!

As far as the detail goes - I have fought with many body shops about how they return the cars to the Dealers I service - they all say they are not in the detail business (at least they think they are not, a high quality shop knows they ARE in the detail business) they are just going to "level the paint and remove defects" using a high speed buffer and an old tired wool pad - depending on the type of paint they used, the catalyst, and the film build, you will have to wait 30-90 days to get the swirls out of your finish and detail/wax your car correctly.

DISO = The Dealer Installed Swirl Option. It's free, no charge.

You may want to tell then NOT to buff your entire car - I have seen some shops do this as a lazy mans way of trying to remove over-spray that ends up all over the car just from being in and around the body shop environment.

I agree. You know, it's nice to give them the benefit of the doubt and that quality work will be done, but history just doesn't prove this out. The detailing department at most shops gets the least amount of attention, and by that we mean training for their people and quality products to do the job right the first time.

Because of the damage done to the finish when it is buffed using a wool pad and cheap chemicals, in most cases you will be better off to request that the rest of the car, the portions not worked on, are left alone and when your car is returned to you, take ownership of this area and with the information available from Meguiar's Online, we will help you to make the entire car look like new.

Good Luck!!!!! let us know how it turns out.

~Lenny

[RLdetail]

I know a few people that own body shops and they almost always "blend" the paint in.

The next best thing is if there is a pinstripe they just paint to that.

But most cars now do not have them.

A lot of shops around here will not paint just the affected panel or they will not guarantee the match to the other panels. I had a few turn me away a few years ago when I was checking into getting my wife's hood fixed. (I tend not to let friends do work as they do it slowly for you!!)It was a silver metallic Saturn and they said they would not touch it unless it was the whole car.

[BJClarke001]

Well, it is Saturday afternoon and I gots the truck back. Here is the deal:

1) They did a fabulous job. Blending AND NO BUFFING took place.

2) The shop told me not to put any wax on the finish to let the Clear Coat Cure for 30 days. They said (and this is where you guys chime in) that the wax will bond into the clear if you don't let it cure and making a mess (cloudy) of the clear coat.

3) The shop also said, not to use ANY wash soap of any kind (I even asked, NOT NXT CAR WASH?) for the month. This one bothers me. They said to use just plain water. This alarms me a little because I would imagine instilling scratches with a wash mit without the soap barrier. What do you guys think.

4) The only problem I do have is that they got overspray on the Plastic Chrome Grill. The shop couldn't do anything today for me and they offfered for me to bring it back when the body shop was open. I told them I would try to remove it myself. Therefore, my question is; I have PlastX, can I use this to clean it? Or, should I get some clay?

Anyways, I had a lot of anxity this whole week with getting the paint job. Other then the overspray on the grill, it looks very very good (Like New). I just can't wait till the clear coat cures so I can get a waxin. Thanks all for your input on this. It really helped the whole process and I never really felt alone doing it because of your help.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
3) The shop also said, not to use ANY wash soap of any kind (I even asked, NOT NXT CAR WASH?) for the month. This one bothers me. They said to use just plain water. This alarms me a little because I would imagine instilling scratches with a wash mit without the soap barrier. What do you guys think.

The only reason that I can think of for the shop to tell you this, is they think that the shampoo you use might have some kind of wax in it?

Unless you use a Meguiars shampoo with wax in it, I don't personally see the harm in washing the painted area with car shampoo.

And right off the top of my head, I don't know of any Meguiars shampoo that has a wax or sealer in it, except for maybe something in the detailer or pro line?

4) The only problem I do have is that they got overspray on the Plastic Chrome Grill. The shop couldn't do anything today for me and they offfered for me to bring it back when the body shop was open. I told them I would try to remove it myself. Therefore, my question is; I have PlastX, can I use this to clean it? Or, should I get some clay?

I would try to clay this area first.

[Accumulator]

BJClarke001- Glad to hear everything turned out so well.

I've washed literally dozens of fresh repaints many times each with shampoo and I've never had a problem. Meguiar's #00 or #62 should be great choices (sorry, I'm not familiar with other Meguiar's shampoos besides Gold Class and I like the #00/#62 better). I too would worry about washing without the lubricity of a good shampoo. The "wash with plain water" advice is an old-fashioned concept that is, at best, the kind of advice you might give to somebody who's likely to do something radically weird (like use a shampoo containing lots of wax).

I also agree with Rusty Bumper about trying the clay as the first approach on the grill. If that doesn't work I'd probably let the shop use a solvent on it. The "plastic chrome" stuff can be a little fragile so I'd prefer to use a gentle approach. If the grill is adjacent to the freshly painted areas, I'd probably take the grill off the car to work on it. Just FWIW I find it really odd that they'd paint a hood without either removing or at least properly masking a grill, but as long as you like how the paintjob turned out that's the main thing.

Oh, almost forgot- get a fresh-paint-friendly "pure polish" to protect the fresh paint while it's curing. You'll have to refresh it after every wash but it'll be better than nothing.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by Accumulator
Oh, almost forgot- get a fresh-paint-friendly "pure polish" to protect the fresh paint while it's curing. You'll have to refresh it after every wash but it'll be better than nothing.

Yes, I forgot about that.

[BJClarke001]

Well, as suggested above, I am going to try the clay. The worse that can happen is it won't work and I will end up taking it back to have the dealer mess with it. It's one of those things that you just hate when someone else is a messin with your finish (well, the grill is extirior so kinda like a finish, LOL).

I will post after I try it to let everyone know (who cares at least) how it went.

BTW: It is funny, we have a lot of places that sells Meguiar's products. Each place sells something (almost all of them) different in the product line. Wal-Mart has the best prices on stuff. BUT, none of them sell the Meg's Clay . However, some places carry the Mother's Clay. I could order Meg's online and wait for it to arrive. But I am a while I am thinking about it therefore do it kinda guy. So, sorry Meg's, normally I would default to your product but can't wait 3-5 days for the product. The good news is that if the Mother's works, we know Meg's would have because it is better

BTW Again: The dealer provided a 3 year warrranty with the paint job. I am a little nervous doing anything out of line per his instructions even though I agree with what you are all saying about the Fresh Paint Friendly Polishes. I would hate for something to happen for some other reasons and have the dealer tell me it was because I didn't follow what they told me. Let me digest this one a little longer and I am sure I will come around.

[rusty bumper]

FWIW, last year I had to get a hood repainted due to a large rock chip.

Right after I brought the car home, I washed it with GC shampoo, and then I buffed the hood with #80.

The hood has looked immaculate ever since, and is very resistant to water spots & etching. I'm sure a lot of it was due to the protection of #80 and proper washing techniques while the paint was in the curing stage.

If you're worried about the right car wash, then try #00. I'm sure it's got to be body shop safe.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

I too would suggest that you use #00 Hi Tech Wash as it is Body Shop Safe and will help to prevent marring from the washing process. Some body shops say to use just water to wash as many people do use just a cheap wash/wax type of product. But keep in mind, many of those people do not realize what swirl marks even are! Therefore, use the #00, and do not wax for 30 days. If you want some protection that can be placed on fresh paint, Meguiar's #80 Speed Glaze uses a paintable polymer specifically designed to be used on fresh paint during the curing process.

Tim

[RamAirV1]

That body shop probably doesn't even know about #00 and the fact that it is body shop safe. Unfortunately, a lot of body shops don't use Meguairs products for whatever reason. Maybe it is because they are too expensive. But I can only speculate. My dealer's body shop had the excuse that nobody from the Meguairs distributor calls on them and they don't have the time to go out and find them. The body shop manager didn't even know about the Body Shop Series, and that worries me! But I just had my car in to have paintless dent repair, which went very well. Fortunately no painting was required!

The prospect of having a dealer do paintwork on my car is

!


I have rarely seen good paintwork done by a dealer body shop. And the less of the body they paint, the better! It is a production environment and the emphasis is on speed, not perfection. I had body work done twice on my Blue Green Chameleon TA. That is a 3 stage (color changing) paint that is supposedly very difficult to work with. First work was done by the dealer body shop on the rear bumper and it was perfect! The second job was done by another body shop on the rear fender to repair a keying. This shop was highly recommended by several people. They had the car for 3 days, had trouble matching the color and the results were mediocre at best. The color matched but gloss was noticeably lower than the rest of the car. I tried everything but could not improve the gloss at all. I should have pursued it but I was trading the car in anyway so I didn't bother.

The guy who did the first body work on my BGC TA said to buy a car that is red, white, or black as they are the easiest colors to work with. I do appreciate his honesty. BTW, this same painter who did such a great job on my bumper painted the bumper of my dad's Regal. And that job looked terrible! One person, different results!

When I had my hail dents repaired on the goat, the dealership body shop manager repaired some chips in the hood for free. He did an OK job. He said it is best to touch up chips rather than repaint because there is nothing like the factory paint job. BTW, he also told me that my hood had been repainted before delivery. I did not buy my car from this dealer. He pointed to the paint buildup around the windshield wipers. At least the paint matched the fenders. Even the orange peel matched! But still the paint chips very easily and I will have to have the hood repainted eventually.

Sorry to rant for so long, but when we start talking about dealer body shop paintwork I get really worked up! Maybe I'm too picky, but that's why I am here.

RamAirV1

[Accumulator]

RamAirV1- Every now and then you find a dealer where the body/paint guys know their stuff. Rare, but it happens. The guys at Stoddard Imports (Porsche/Audi dealer) are doing all my work these days; they're better than the independent shops I had been using. But yeah, most dealership body/paint shops do terrible work Sounds like BJClarke001 might've found an OK place.

BJClarke001- Just a note on the use of #80- and I don't mean to repeat myself (I've been posting this quite a bit here lately ). The diminishing abrasives in #80 are very mild, but I've had one case where they were too aggressive for a fresh repaint. If you're worried about the warranty, I'd use something without abrasives *just in case*. You can always use the #80 later if you pick up some light marring you want to eliminate. I've found the protection from *any* fresh-paint-safe product really oughta be refreshed after every wash, and I never noticed any real differences in the durability/protection of #80 and my fave #5. The #5 is easier/faster to use, as you don't have to break down the diminishing abrasives.

Sheesh, I'm a real proselytizer for #5 Substitute any other "pure polish" that you can find as #5 isn't too common.