using #83 with d/a polisher

[the perfectionist]

hi guys and mike(i'm a fan),

I have a question. First, let me say that i am a compleat newbie. I just bought a p/c d/a polisher, some #83, #7, #9, #26, and glare ploish to try out and exparement with. This is the first time that i have used any of these products or a polisher.
Let me tell you what i did and what kind of car i have. I have a 1998 honda prelude in a pearl white color. The paint is in pretty good condition, but there are swirls and/or cobwebs(i'm not sure which is the correct definition). I wanted to try and get them out. So, first, i gave it a real good wash. then, i used some #83 on one side of the hood on setting 3 and wiped it off. Nothing. I did the same thing again for a little longer time. Nothing. I increased the speed to 4 and tryed using a little more product. Nothing. Then i tryed setting five with even more product. The swirls were still there after about six passes.
I called the meguires Rx hotline to ask why they were still there. They really were not that bad, it should of worked. The guy said that he was suprised that it didn't work, and that i was using the most agressive polish for the p/c. I asked if i was doing something wrong. The product was drying up pretty fast, and he said the i could use some quick detailer to keep it moist. He then said to just be paitient and keep going. If it didn't work, he said that the car could of been buffed by a rotory buffer and scratched. The only thing is that the swirls just didn't look that bad.
So, i tryed what he said. I went really slow and used some quick detailer and made 2 more very long and slow passes. Nothing.
Then after pulling my hair out i continued on with the rest of the car. I used 1 coat of #9, then #7, and then #26 to finish it off. It took me about 4 hours total.
The car looks great. It has a nice mirror look to it. I am very happy with the end result except for one thing. The swirls are still there!
If anyone can help i would greatly appreciate it.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi the perfectionist,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

In most cases, there are two camps when problems arise,

The first camp would be people that have a paint on their car that is as hard as glass, in this case removing small particles of it in an effort to remove below surface defects will take a long time and be difficult at best. In most all cases, the correct approach would be to use a rotary buffer.

The second camp would be someone doing almost everything right, but maybe off in one or two areas.

First, what kind of pad are you using?

Second, how large an area are you working? When in doubt, reduce the size of your work area. If you have one of our Ultimate Wipe microfiber polishing cloths, lay it out on your finish and work an area about this size. Many people try to work to large of an area and by doing so the cannot focus enough attention, (By attention I mean pressure and time), to be effective.

Third, slow arm speed, 4-5 lbs of pressure on the head of the polisher and put the speed setting on 5.0

Below are some tips, but if the above doesn't work, then you pushed the dual action polisher to it's limit. I discuss all of this in this thread.


PC+83 not "cutting" it!


The dual action polisher is limited to what it can do. It will never replace a rotary buffer. What you can and cannot do with a dual action polisher will be determined by a number of different factors, two big ones are paint hardness or softness, and also technique.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Tips & Techniques for using the G-100a to remove swirls and other paint defects.

Products Used
Quik Clay System
G-100a
W-8006 foam polishing pad
W-9006 foam finishing pad
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
#80 Speed Glaze
Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax
Ultimate Wipe
Ultimate Bonnet

First wash the car thoroughly. Pay special attention to loosening and removing any dirt particles from cracks and crevices to prevent these dirt particles from being introduced onto the surface during the polishing process. After washing and drying, inspect the surface both visually for below surface defects and with the palm of your clean hand for above surface defects.

If you feel any tiny little bumps still attached to the finish after washing, proceed to clay the paint to safely remove these contaminants. After claying each panel, wipe the panel down with a quick detailer to remove any residue.

Using Painters Tape, tape-off any plastic trim or components that you don not want to get product onto and also tape-off any edges, high points or areas with known thin paint.



Your car may not look like the below car, but the taped-off areas should...




Applying #83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 5.0
• Arm Speed - Slow Arm Speed
• Pressure - 4 to 5 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
• Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
• Overlapping motions - Overlap each pass by 50%, move the polisher using different patterns
• Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working

When using the G100 Dual Action Polisher to remove defects, (This is different then merely applying a polish or a wax because you're trying to remove paint), you need to use a slow arm speed and overlap you passes by 50%. You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.

Only work a small area at a time, this will vary according to the shape, curve or body line of the panel you are polishing but for example on a large flat panel, you want to stay around a 12" to 18" squared area. The point being, don't try to work to large of an area all at once or you won't remove the defects equally everywhere.

When you move on to a new section, overlap into the old section for a uniform end results.

When it comes time for applying a pure polish, or a wax, (besides cleaner/waxes like ColorX if you're doing a one-step), the you can polish larger areas and spend less time, i.e. use less passes.

The point of the cleaning step is to remove the defects. Because the G100's polishing action is gentle and therefore safe, it takes time to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove a defect.

If the below image represents swirls and scratches evenly distributed throughout your car's finish,



Then you can see that in order to remove the defects you need to remove the highest areas of the surface until they are level with the lowest depths of the deepest scratches. In essence, you must remove paint.


Applying #80 Speed Glaze with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 4.0 to 5.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - 3-5 pounds of pressure
• Work Area - You can work a larger area than what you do with the #83 DACP
• Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Speed Glaze is rich in polishing oils a little bit goes a long ways

Applying NXT Tech Wax with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 3.0 to 4.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - Light pressure - More than the weight of the machine, you want to engage the foam pad with the surface, not just float over it
• Work Area - You can work panel by panel, for example, apply to one half of the hood, then walk to the other side of the car and apply to the other half of the hood. Apply to fender all at once, door, deck lid, etc.
• Time - Work the product long enough to make two passes over the finish then move on
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working

Removing Polish or Wax with an Ultimate Bonnet on the G-100

• Speed Setting - 4.0 to 5.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - 3-5 pounds of pressure
• Work Area - You can work panel by panel, for example, apply to one half of the hood, then walk to the other side of the car and apply to the other half of the hood. Apply to fender all at once, door, deck lid, etc.
• Time - Work the area until the bonnet has removed the wax

Mike

[the perfectionist]

using #83 and a d/a polisher

Thanks for the reply mike.

I used a polishing pad from buff and shine. First i was working half the hood, then after about two passes i decreased the area to a 2 x 2 section. After reading your reply, i think i did everything right. Maybe i just have some hard paint. As a comparison, my swirls are only about 1/5 the intensity of the white ford lightning.
The only problem is that i don't have a rotory or know how to use one. I guess i will have to but one maybe sometime down the road.

Thanks for the help!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: using #83 and a d/a polisher

Originally posted by the perfectionist
Thanks for the reply mike.

I used a polishing pad from buff and shine. First i was working half the hood, then after about two passes i decreased the area to a 2 x 2 section. After reading your reply, i think i did everything right. Maybe i just have some hard paint. As a comparison, my swirls are only about 1/5 the intensity of the white ford lightning.
The only problem is that i don't have a rotory or know how to use one. I guess i will have to but one maybe sometime down the road.

Thanks for the help!

Shrink your work area down to about one foot squared and try again using a slow arm speed, 4-5 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher.

It would be interesting to see what your results would be using our W-8006 foam polishing pad. Is their a PBE store near you? This would be an interesting experiment for about $10.00

[the perfectionist]

using #83 with a d/a polisher

thanks again mike

I will shrink my area. Here's something you might find interesting. the the velcro backing on both my polishing and finishing pads from buff and shine fell off on the first day i used them. LOL Does that happen often???
My next trial will be with the W-8006 and W-9006. I still have to order them, but i will let you know how it turns out.

[the perfectionist]

i found some befor pics

i found some befor pics. I had to scan them in so the quality isn't that good, but at least you get a idea. These are after the deep crystal polish, but befor the #83 with a d/a polisher.

[the perfectionist]

another pic

here is a bigger view, it looks good. just not good enough.

[the perfectionist]

I know that this is an old thread, but I did purchase the 8006 and 9006 pads. The difference is amazing. I can now get out swirls! I also refined my techniques from your advice mike. I do have one more question though. What camera settings do you use to take such good pics of swirls? I just bought a digital camera and have had a hard time figuring out which settings to use. Any advice would be great.