#85 and the PC?!

[karll]

whats the most aggressive compound you have used with the PC.

I tried #83 with polishing pad, which didnt take care of the severity of scratches, swirls etc....

i then tried 3M's RC (which is graded 1200 grit, same as Meg's heavy cut #4) with orange power pad...and still need a tad bit more!!

ANYONE tried #85 with the orange pad with PC,,,


yeah I know, time for a Rotary with wool pad!!

[Mike Phillips]

You need a rotary buffer.

People expect to much out of a machine that for lack of better words, jiggles. This would probably work on an old fashioned, solvent-evaporation paint like nitrocellulose lacquer, but modern catalyzed paints are simply too hard, (as compared t traditional paints), and removing small particles of paint in an effort to level the surface and thus remove the defect requires some real abrading action taking place on the finish.

You could theoretically run the dual action polisher long enough and with enough applications and finally remove the defect as they do remove paint, but their cleaning, or polishing action is so gentle that against harder paints, before doing this people either give up or post a question on a forum such as this.

The most aggressive product in the Meguiar's line that we recommend for use with a dual action polisher is the M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.

If this cleaner/polish, (and despite what is often posted about it, it is actually a fairly aggressive cleaner/polish, not a mild one), together with our W-8006 polishing pad on the 5.0 setting will not remove the below surface paint defects effectively enough, or fast enough to satisfy your expectations, then you either need to switch over to a rotary buffer, take it to a pro that knows how to use a rotary buffer, or learn to live with the defects.

Trying to use either of our compounds, M84 or M85 with the dual action cleaner polisher will not work as these products require the dramatically more powerful force a rotary buffer can exert to make the diminishing abrasives in these products perform.

Please read the thread in the below link and you should then completely understand the abilities and the limitations of the dual action polisher. It also includes some pretty dramatic pictures. It's too complicated to copy and paste into your thread, so you'll have to click to it and read it in its entirety in it's own thread.

Meguiar's never recommends using a cutting pad on the dual action polisher. While it may remove the defects the aggressive nature of the cutting pad when used with the oscillating action of the dual action polisher will haze the finish and it will often times require a rotary buffer to remove the haze.

Conversely, the same pad used with a rotary buffer will create a clear, high gloss finish. It has to do with the action of the machine and how it works the diminishing abrasives against the finish.

Here's a thread that discusses this more fully.

PC+83 not "cutting" it!

Typically, anytime I've tried a more aggressive compound or cutting pad with the dual action polisher, while it may remove the defects, it will almost always dull the entire finish down. This is called working backwards.

[karll]

^^^^thanks mike.

[bcgreen]

So, Mike, would you say this is the problem with my G35? I remember you saying that this is the kind of paint I have, and it tends to haze up. Since you were in a rush that day, perhaps you didn't have time to tell me that " the oscillating action of the dual action polisher. will haze the finish and it will often times require a rotary buffer to remove the haze.

Conversely, the same pad used with a rotary buffer will create a clear, high gloss finish. It has to do with the action of the machine and how it works the diminishing abrasives against the finish."
I am correct in assuming that if I use the rotary with a yellow pad and DACP that I should get rid of the haze and bring back the gloss?

[rusty bumper]

After some experimenting with the W-7006 pad/G-100 combo, I have come to the conclusions that Mike is right about this causing hazing on clear coat paint.

Although the same combo may help remove certain defects quicker, it would be better to make extra passes with the right stuff, than one pass with the wrong.

[karll]

well, mike is the guru and genius, and i respect his knowledge and comments...

but, i am a nut, and instead of returning the diamond cut #85 to the store, i gave it a whirl!!!

the #83 wasnt cutting it, and my 'goto' 3M's Rubbing compound was leaving a heck of a mess/haze ---with orange power pads.

this is not a complete BEFORE and AFTER, but its what I have so far....

this is what I was up against

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and although unfair as the setting is ENTIRELY different, this is what the #85 did with PC at 5 and Orange LC cutting pad.
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[karll]

I was trully amazed at how little hazing this combo created...

I applied generously, and it was very white, which turned spotty, then it turned that clear oily look, then just as it started to dry up, I stopped.

I will do a complete before and after when done (after #83, #80 then NXT)

cheers.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by bcgreen
So, Mike, would you say this is the problem with my G35? I remember you saying that this is the kind of paint I have, and it tends to haze up. Since you were in a rush that day, perhaps you didn't have time to tell me that " the oscillating action of the dual action polisher. will haze the finish and it will often times require a rotary buffer to remove the haze.

Conversely, the same pad used with a rotary buffer will create a clear, high gloss finish. It has to do with the action of the machine and how it works the diminishing abrasives against the finish."
I am correct in assuming that if I use the rotary with a yellow pad and DACP that I should get rid of the haze and bring back the gloss?

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, I didn't say your paint was hazed by anything you did to it, any hazy look it has is inherent in the paint itself.

A quick test would be to tape off had your deck-lid and rotary buff on half with either some M83, or some M80 with a clean yellow W-8006 foam polishing pad. Wipe off the residue and inspect for clarity against the other side, if it looks more clear, then repeat this over the entire car.

If the finish is more clear but you also have light swirls, then you can either re-polish the entire car with a softer pad and milder polish using the rotary, or you can re-polish the entire car using the dual action polisher with the M80 or possibly a lighter cleaner/polish to remove any swirls.

Then go to wax.

I'll be at Meguiar's all day tomorrow for the Mustang club, if you would like, bring it by and I'll take a look at it again, come by about 2:30pm

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by karll
I was truly amazed at how little hazing this combo created...

I applied generously, and it was very white, which turned spotty, then it turned that clear oily look, then just as it started to dry up, I stopped.

I will do a complete before and after when done (after #83, #80 then NXT)

cheers.

I would agree that it looks great, however, how did the paint look after the M85 with the LC orange pad in full sun like the original photos were taken?

If it looks clear and without haze in any light condition, them I'm very happy this combination worked for you, but we still don't want people using this combination on their clear coat finishes. You may have just happen to have a combination that worked well on your paint type, but I believe this would be the exception, not the rule.

Also, vertical panels can be harder to detect haze over horizontal panels that you can look down on and have light shine directly onto.

M85 with a cutting pad is a very aggressive combination for a dual action polisher on a clear coat.

[karll]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
I would agree that it looks great, however, how did the paint look after the M85 with the LC orange pad in full sun like the original photos were taken?

If it looks clear and without haze in any light condition, them I'm very happy this combination worked for you, but we still don't want people using this combination on their clear coat finishes. You may have just happen to have a combination that worked well on your paint type, but I believe this would be the exception, not the rule.

Also, vertical panels can be harder to detect haze over horizontal panels that you can look down on and have light shine directly onto.

M85 with a cutting pad is a very aggressive combination for a dual action polisher on a clear coat.

I'm with ya...I think I may have just gotten lucky...It just may have worked for me with this type of paint..
and yes the pictures are very unfair as the conditions are so different...but like i mentioned, I look forward to showing it out in the sun around 11:00 am for a true comparison!!!!

I did heed your warning...but like I say,, I'm a nut.

[karll]

oh yeah, and if there is some hazing (out in the sun) I have complete confidence in M83!!!!!

[bcgreen]

"If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, I didn't say your paint was hazed by anything you did to it, any hazy look it has is inherent in the paint itself."
This hazying is due to my incorrect use of DACP with a PC. I didn't have this hazing before I used the product. So my quest has been to bring back the clarity. I only have DACP and #82. I tried just about everything anybody with expertise has suggested, but to no avail. Another good word for the finish is DULL or Flat. It looks shiny otherwise until the evening sun hits the particular area I am working on. My horizontals are pretty clear, but not the rear bumper and rear trunk - the vertical part.
We will have to schedule another time, for tomorrow is not good for me.
Thanks

[karll]

some more befores,

tailgate was a mess above the latch handle, wetsanded with 600,800,1000,1500.

then pc'd with #85,#83,#80 then NXT.

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AFTERS::::

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