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DA Power System and color sanding marks

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  • #1

    DA Power System and color sanding marks

    Hi guys,

    Total noob here but very motivated soon-to-be owner of a scratched car.
    I'm working on getting my old 2005 wagon focus prepped for selling and I though I'd use it as training prop for my detailing skills at the same time.

    I got myself the DA power system, burgundy pad kit and a bottle of UC and UP.
    I'm getting set to level up the paint on the spray-can touch up job I did on my ford a couple of weeks ago.
    That job included the bottom of a couple of doors, a third of the hood and some strategic spots on fenders plus a rear bumper crack fix and re-painted.

    My plan goes like this:
    - get the car clean and clayed before starting up.
    - wet-sand using 600 grit where I can see orange peel and deep defects
    - wet-sand using 1500 grit these spots and anywhere else I got spray-can paint.
    - then wet-sand again over these areas with 2500 grit and finally with 3000 grit

    Then I would use the DA Power system to do a UC+UP over most the car to get it all shiny.
    As I just sprayed the car a couple of weeks ago, I will skip the wax for now.

    I don't have the budget to buy myself a real enthusiast tool like a G110v2 or a Flex3401 but, likewise, I'm not shooting for auto-show perfection either.
    I don't have a garage either so I'm inspecting this work with flashlights when the sun is down.

    My questions are:
    -Does that plan make any sense?
    -Can the DA Power system and a corded drill take out 3000 grit sanding marks?
    -Does the 'DAPS and friends' kit appropriate for both the fresh spray-can paint and the OEM old hard paint?
    -How often you would clean the pads on the DAPS on, for example, 3-4 passes on a 2x2 feet area? And how you do that, assuming no air-compressor around?

    -Shall I borrow a rotary from a friend and get a wool pad+M101 to deal with 3000 sanding marks?
    I'm quite hesitant to go down that path since I don't have any training at all with buffers and re-paint season is now over up here in Canada so I won't be able to fix screw-ups.

    All comments welcome and put-downs tolerated as I'm as green in this as you can possibly imagine me to be.

    thanks,

    Crazy Vinny
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

    Welcome to MOL, Vinny!

    A few thoughts on your process:

    600 grit - You will be taking off a ton of material very quickly doing that. You'd be surprised just how much texture you can remove with 1500 grit and we really suggest you start there first. Odds are you won't need anything beyond that. Don't cheap out on the sand paper, either. The stuff you pick up at the hardware and most auto parts stores is sub par at best. Go to a PBE Store (paint body equipment) and get either Meguiar's Unigrit Sandpapers or 3M Trizact - they are well worth the extra cost.

    As for the DA Power System and Ultimate Compound removing your 3000 grit sanding marks, we think you'll be seriously pushing the limits of that tool. It was never designed for that sort of heavy lifting. In fact, up until just a few short years ago we would tell you that you must go rotary to remove sanding marks. Today, however, DA technology has changed, and so has pad and compound technology. We can now confidently say that a decent DA polisher fitted with our microfiber cutting disc and some M105, M100 or M101 will fairly easily remove 3000 grit sanding marks from even factory cured paint. That assumes 3000 grit DA sanding marks, but I've removed 2500 grit hand sanding marks with ease using a DA with that 5" MF disc and M100. But using cheap sand paper, or using poor technique while sanding is going to haunt you, even with a good DA.

    We recommend that you NOT borrow your friend's rotary since you don't have experience with that tool and, well, it can and will bite you. Hard. It literally takes just a moment of inattention with a rotary and you'll burn paint. And even if you don't burn through (or sand through, for that matter) odds are you'll at least be left with a bunch of rotary swirls (AKA holograms) that you'll need to somehow remove. The DAPS might be able to handle that part, however.

    Since this is a rattle can job odds are the paint is quite thin. Personally, I've gotten great results with rattle can jobs using primer, color and clear from Automotivetouchup.com and then sanding with just 3000 grit and buffing out the sanding marks with a quality DA buffer. If you have any of the paint left over, you might want to experiment by spraying something, anything (heck, a cheap aluminum cake tin makes an excellent test bed) and try sanding with just 3000 grit and buffing with your DAPS kit and see where that gets you. You can definitely gain some power by using our 3" microfiber cutting disc on that tool and swapping out the Ultimate Compound for some M100. That's definitely going to be a step up in power, but will it remove the sanding marks? That's a tough one to say for sure as, far as I know, nobody here has ever attempted it. But at least you'll have an idea how things will turn out, and it could save you a ton of headache by testing it out first.

    But keep that 600 grit as a last resort!!!!
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

      Thank you very much, Michael!
      Your advice will be heeded and is highly appreciated.

      I will stay away from the 600 grit and the rotary for sure.
      I like very much the idea of pimping up the DAPS with a 3" MF disk and M101.
      It would not have occurred to me that Meguiar's other pads can be fit on the DAPS.

      I'm wondering if I should grab some 5000 grit to try to smooth the sanding marks even further?
      The plan would become:

      -clean and clay
      -wet-sand with 1500 where necessary, 2500, 3000 and finally 5000 grit.
      -Cut it up with DAPS with the MF Pad and M100
      -Smooth that up further with the Burgundy and UC
      -polish it with the yellow pad and UP

      By the way, do you recommend I clean the pads using the little brush tool I saw Mike Pennington use in the training video?
      Is that good for the DAPS pads too? I can't see myself applying a spur tool to any foam pads, let alone the DAPS ones.

      I'm assuming that wet-sanding is pretty much a requirement for a rattlecan job if the paint is to get a decent polish.
      My current understanding is that I have to go through successive grits to progressively transform the "remove the orange peel" scratches into something that the cutting step can handle.
      But I might be wrong on these assumptions.

      In any case, thanks again for the feeback.

      Crazy Vinny

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

        Vinny,

        Consider to invest into a full power dual action polisher, like Meguiar's G110v2 or MT300. It's a great investment for many years plus it will make your detailing projects go smoother.

        You can clean your foam pads/microfiber discs "on the fly" (using microfiber towel pressed against pad/disc and turning machine on), you can use a nylon brush (dual action machine off) or use compressed air.

        Sometimes just leveling orange peel highs may be good enough to significantly improve paint's appearance. Going after a full defect removal may be very risky. If it's an original factory paint - its clear coat is thin and hard.

        Wet sanding is, believe it, much safer and controlled process than heavy compounding. Furthermore it's less stressful for car paint as well as there is no high heat.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

          Thank you greg for the feedback.

          Ironically, if I sell the car close to the price I shoot for, I might be able to afford a real DA like the ones you mentioned.
          I just learned my buddy has an air compressor I could borrow and use for pad cleaning so I'll go wit that.

          Crazy Vinny

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

            Hi again Michael,

            Just wondering: Why do you recommend the M100 product on the MF 3" pads over the D300 or other MF system-dedicated product?
            Is it to avoid getting too much cutting power on the DAPS?

            thanks,

            Crazy Vinny

            Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post
            Welcome to MOL, Vinny!

            A few thoughts on your process:

            600 grit - You will be taking off a ton of material very quickly doing that. You'd be surprised just how much texture you can remove with 1500 grit and we really suggest you start there first. Odds are you won't need anything beyond that. Don't cheap out on the sand paper, either. The stuff you pick up at the hardware and most auto parts stores is sub par at best. Go to a PBE Store (paint body equipment) and get either Meguiar's Unigrit Sandpapers or 3M Trizact - they are well worth the extra cost.

            As for the DA Power System and Ultimate Compound removing your 3000 grit sanding marks, we think you'll be seriously pushing the limits of that tool. It was never designed for that sort of heavy lifting. In fact, up until just a few short years ago we would tell you that you must go rotary to remove sanding marks. Today, however, DA technology has changed, and so has pad and compound technology. We can now confidently say that a decent DA polisher fitted with our microfiber cutting disc and some M105, M100 or M101 will fairly easily remove 3000 grit sanding marks from even factory cured paint. That assumes 3000 grit DA sanding marks, but I've removed 2500 grit hand sanding marks with ease using a DA with that 5" MF disc and M100. But using cheap sand paper, or using poor technique while sanding is going to haunt you, even with a good DA.

            We recommend that you NOT borrow your friend's rotary since you don't have experience with that tool and, well, it can and will bite you. Hard. It literally takes just a moment of inattention with a rotary and you'll burn paint. And even if you don't burn through (or sand through, for that matter) odds are you'll at least be left with a bunch of rotary swirls (AKA holograms) that you'll need to somehow remove. The DAPS might be able to handle that part, however.

            Since this is a rattle can job odds are the paint is quite thin. Personally, I've gotten great results with rattle can jobs using primer, color and clear from Automotivetouchup.com and then sanding with just 3000 grit and buffing out the sanding marks with a quality DA buffer. If you have any of the paint left over, you might want to experiment by spraying something, anything (heck, a cheap aluminum cake tin makes an excellent test bed) and try sanding with just 3000 grit and buffing with your DAPS kit and see where that gets you. You can definitely gain some power by using our 3" microfiber cutting disc on that tool and swapping out the Ultimate Compound for some M100. That's definitely going to be a step up in power, but will it remove the sanding marks? That's a tough one to say for sure as, far as I know, nobody here has ever attempted it. But at least you'll have an idea how things will turn out, and it could save you a ton of headache by testing it out first.

            But keep that 600 grit as a last resort!!!!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

              The M100 is actually more aggressive than D300.

              I'd say Mike is recommending that because of the limited correction power of the DAPS, especially where removing sanding marks is concerned.
              Originally posted by Blueline
              I own a silver vehicle and a black vehicle owns me. The black one demands attention, washing, detailing, waxing and an occasional dinner out at a nice restaurant. The silver one demands nothing and it looks just fine. I think the black vehicle is taking advantage of me, and the silver car is more my style. We can go out for a drive without her makeup and she looks fine. If I want to take the black one out, it is three or four hours in the "bathroom" to get ready.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

                Thanks for the feedback Greg!
                I'll be looking for a list of compound product aggressiveness to get a rough idea of how to rank them.

                Are you aware of any problem using something else than MF-dedicated products with an MF cutting pad?

                Love the signature, by the way!

                Crazy Vinny

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

                  Originally posted by davey g-force View Post
                  The M100 is actually more aggressive than D300.

                  I'd say Mike is recommending that because of the limited correction power of the DAPS, especially where removing sanding marks is concerned.
                  Exactly right.
                  Michael Stoops
                  Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                  Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

                    Just a quick heads up guys.

                    I finally got to test my current setup over the long week-end and it worked beautifully.
                    I used the DAPS on what I found out later was a totally inadequate drill (only 800 rpm) and still managed to take out 3000 sanding marks on my test spot.

                    My guess would be that my old Ford Focus has pretty soft paint and/or that the MF cutting pad+M100 combo really made a big difference.

                    Thanks a lot for all the input!
                    I'm really impressed by the results of the cut+polish process.

                    Next step: Up the notch on the paint correction, using 1500 grit before the 3000, and see if I still get a great finish.


                    Crazy Vinny

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: DA Power System and color sanding marks

                      Great, glad it's working out for you!
                      Originally posted by Blueline
                      I own a silver vehicle and a black vehicle owns me. The black one demands attention, washing, detailing, waxing and an occasional dinner out at a nice restaurant. The silver one demands nothing and it looks just fine. I think the black vehicle is taking advantage of me, and the silver car is more my style. We can go out for a drive without her makeup and she looks fine. If I want to take the black one out, it is three or four hours in the "bathroom" to get ready.

                      Comment

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