Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I think you will know more when you can actually get a machine working on these areas, either your own or a hired detailer. I know you want answers so you can make decisions, but unless you're going to hire someone, you just have to get a DA and start learning the ropes. We just can't theorize much more without seeing how the paint responds. Personally, I think the transformation from the greyed scratched paint to a true gloss black will be dramatic

Good enough Top Gear, thank you for your help !

It's time to start looking into DAs ....

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I think you will know more when you can actually get a machine working on these areas, either your own or a hired detailer. I know you want answers so you can make decisions, but unless you're going to hire someone, you just have to get a DA and start learning the ropes. We just can't theorize much more without seeing how the paint responds. Personally, I think the transformation from the greyed scratched paint to a true gloss black will be dramatic

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

The Guz, thank you for that link I've really learned a lot over the past few days. The link you provided says Type II can not be repaired. But it can possibly be made less noticeable.
I now have a better understanding of what they are. And yes I should clean up the swirls.



Eldorado2k that was a good point to "make the majority of the paint look near perfect". If I clean up the swirls and such it might not look that bad. Maybe I'll take a look at a few DAs and see. I noticed your imperfections were also 'white' on dark paint. As mine are. Have you tried to eliminate that contrast ? Is that possible ?



Top Gear you mentioned " reduce them to transparency, rather than being white on black". I was thinking about that today and wondering why are they White ??? They are far more noticeable because they're White on Black. If they weren't so white they might just look like small chips. Not great, but not as bad as they look now.


So why are they white... or at least appear to be white ? Is that the wax/compound ?
And can I reduce the whiteness so they blend in more and aren't that noticeable ?
What about those black colored waxes ?

Thank you again guys...

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I don't think it's a dire as all that. Even if they are fractures (clear coat failures), a machine compounding, possibly a bit of sanding as well, a healthy amount of polishing oils from multiple passes, and a good carnauba wax will at the very least reduce them to transparency, rather than being white on black. It's also possible they are not deep failures, which means time is of the essence. Even with such great pictures, it's hard to be sure.

Don't lose hope

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I agree with The Guz. There's a good reason the clay, compound, or anything else hasn't worked.

That's way past tree sap and no ammount of anything will ever get those etchings out. My hood is littered with those same kind of spots..

You can make the majority of the paint look near perfect. But those spots are more like scars, they're never coming out. Look closely and you can spot them.



You can kinda see them better in this photo.



All those spots are just like yours.



And then there's times when you can't even notice them and random strangers everywhere stop to tell you how amazing and well maintained your car looks. Be carefull at gas stations as mobs have been known to form around your car because it looks 1000x better than the ones coming out of the "touchless $5 swirl-o-matic" gas station car scratch tunnel. Lmao



If you're really interested in improving the paint on your vehicle you can start and almost finish by eliminating those swirls. You can live with a few minor imperfections on your daily driver. Or at least I can.. Don't worry about winning every little battle, as long as you win the war

[The Guz]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

The porter cable is fine. The PC7424XP is one of the easiest tools to learn on and can get the job done. That's why it's still around and that's why many are sold. I actually know someone who is looking to sell one with some pads if you are interested in picking up a DA and pads.

Looking at those photos, there are definitely some swirls that can be removed. The etchings look like it could be clear coat fractures.

Reminds me of the second photo from this link.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/24924-two-types-bird-dropping-etchings.html

If the clear is actually fractured then there really is no fix for it.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Wow, great shots! Definitely a DA is needed, and I think those etchings, and everything else, will come out. Those circular lines are swirls or spiderwebs, and they're quite heavy. It should look glossy black with none of those artifacts, but it's not as daunting as it seems.

Guz may advise different, but I think the Porter Cable is the way to go. There are various box kits with different model numbers, but all I think are based on the venerable 7424XP. With a backing plate and pads of some sort with some liquid products, it's going to be a couple hundred bucks. Sounds like a lot, but it's not. Go to a professional detailer (who will likely use a PC DA) and see how a one-time full detail including fixing this blemish could be $300 or more. Or compare to a manned drive-thru car wash where they charge $25 a pop, yet that blemish will still be there for years to come because they cannot fix it.

I thought about this purchase myself for a long time before making the jump, so I know what you're thinking. From personal experience and my own resistance, I can say there's just no comparison, and you will never look back, but it's impossible to see that when you've never used such a machine before and can't see the results yet.

The pics I posted above were from my very first attempt with my Porter Cable. With compound, I fixed a bunch of blemishes around the car, some that I'd created working by hand, as shown (fixing the hologram as well as the underlying blemish or scratch), then I got the best polish and wax job I'd ever seen on any of my vehicles. The result might not look dramatic in the shots above due to the odd angle of the sunlight, but take a look at my gallery or "First Correction" links in my sig for more details. I've never looked back.

Don't think of it as the cost of fixing this one thing, but fixing hundreds of blemishes, scratches, swirls and spots over many years, with as many corrections and waxings as you want, getting a finely polished paint finish that looks professional every time, all for as many vehicles, boats or other things as you want to work on. The machine itself will last forever, the pads and liquids will last a couple of years at least, and you'll have a skilled hobby.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

I hope these are clear enough. They're the best I could get, focus-wise.

I used a macro setting so they will appear much larger than they actually are.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Considering the price of the DAPS, I would pick up a DA instead. You will much more success with a polisher than by hand.

Guz, which DA(s) would you suggest ??? I'm not all that familiar with the better models.

[The Guz]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Guz, thanks for your response. I was hoping others here may have had similar experience and could let me know if they were able to correct their sap etchings with the Meguiar's DA power system (drill attachment).
I did try by hand, with no luck. I'm just not clear on whether the Power System will make any difference ?

I just don't see the point of throwing more money at a problem that can't be corrected.

Considering the price of the DAPS, I would pick up a DA instead. You will much more success with a polisher than by hand.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Please post a picture, or several. It's hard to theorize about this further. What exactly did you do by hand? It sounds like you were too gentle, but getting aggressive by hand is a danger, IMO. Can you feel the etchings with a fingernail? If so, its possible to minimize them. If you can't feel them, it's possible to remove them with the right techniques. So, there are lots of variables.

I hear you, though. I was once thinking the same thing, not wanting to spend money, and it's hard to believe people on discussion forums. Many members here were also in the same or similar positions. None of us were born with a polishing machine in our hands

TopGear, I focused on one small sap etching by hand with the Mags 105 compound to see if it would make a difference. I did not. I was fairly aggressive, but not too aggressive.

No I can not feel the etching at all.

Yes good idea I will try to post a few photos. I would imagine though imperfections on black paint will be hard to photograph but I'll try.

Thanks again...

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Sounds like they are pretty deep and would require more work than using anything by hand.

Guz, thanks for your response. I was hoping others here may have had similar experience and could let me know if they were able to correct their sap etchings with the Meguiar's DA power system (drill attachment).
I did try by hand, with no luck. I'm just not clear on whether the Power System will make any difference ?

I just don't see the point of throwing more money at a problem that can't be corrected.

[Top Gear]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Please post a picture, or several. It's hard to theorize about this further. What exactly did you do by hand? It sounds like you were too gentle, but getting aggressive by hand is a danger, IMO. Can you feel the etchings with a fingernail? If so, its possible to minimize them. If you can't feel them, it's possible to remove them with the right techniques. So, there are lots of variables.

I hear you, though. I was once thinking the same thing, not wanting to spend money, and it's hard to believe people on discussion forums. Many members here were also in the same or similar positions. None of us were born with a polishing machine in our hands

[The Guz]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

Sounds like they are pretty deep and would require more work than using anything by hand.

[NYShine]

Re: Remove Tree Sap Etching/ Water Marks From Black Auto Hood

A friend brought over Meguiar's 105 compound yesterday. It's supposed to be very good. I gave it a try by hand but it did nothing to remove the sap etchings. I'm not sure these products will correct the problem. Maybe the etchings are just too deep or too old to remove. I don't see the point in wasting the money on a Meguiar's DA power system that probably won't work.