A few questions on Polishing/Waxing

[boonfei80]

Hi Everyone, I am a car enthusiast and like to detail car (yeah I can be sloppy in what I wear but not for the car!) I also have numerous Meguiar products as they are the best that reckon.
Anyway in the recent year I have start to polish my car (previous years just wash, clay bar and wax only) as I came to know that polish helps to create a nice base for better shine. After much polishing experiments, I still have much questions about polishing and abit of waxing queries which I like to ask and hopefully get some answers (you know how frustrating it gets when you dont get the effect you wanted).

Please bear with me for the numerous questions. Guess that is part of the learning curve. For those who know can just answer any of the questions posted.

a) Wax causing Polish job to look hazy:. I used Utimate Polish (UP) with DA machine on my Pearl White car and the paint became very glossy and reflective (using torchlight to test the area, seeing the reflection of the torch light bulb on the panel). Next of course I used wax to coat the polished area. I used Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax for the job and to my ‘horror’, the panel area became abit hazy after I wiped the wax off. I was wondering was it because Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax have some polishing agents in it? I subsequently used Ultimate Paste Wax (UPP) to try on another polished panel. UPP caused the panel to also abit hazy after wip off but not as bad as Deep Crystal Wax. So my question:
A1) is it natural for a coat of wax to put a slight haze to the polished job? The wax somehow disturbed the polishing oil on the paint panel?
A2) Or is it that certain wax from 1 series doesn’t match with polish from another series ? example: Best to use Polish and Wax from Ultimate series as they are formulated to work without conflict?
A3) Does Deep Crystal Carnuaba Wax have polishing agents?

b) Polishing Oil in Ultimate Polish is a layer of oil or fused into paint after polishing? I often read in the forum that Polish have Polishing Oil in it. Hence if I after I polished the panel to high gloss/shine, if the shine due to the polishing oil? The ‘Polishing Oil’ is fused into the paintwork as a permanent thing or is it just an oil layer much like wax? Will it get striped off after repeated car washing?

c) Ultimate Polish is using SMAT or Diminishing Abrasive? I read some articles some state its SMAT , some state its DAT. Does SMAT means one does not need to work as hard to get the polishing effect?

d) I stay in Singapore (South East Asia). Weather here is hot and with occasion rain. I have a weekend car which is parked under shade but not enclosed, hence open to dusts from the environment. I polished the paint about 6-8 month ago but the paint now gets dirty embedded (those which washing and clay bar cant get out).I used White wax on one area and you can see all the dirt gets picked up leaving the done area whiter than the other. Use of Cleaner Wax/ White wax does help to clean up my paint but at the same time it cause my paintwork to get hazy if I dont don’t work it well. Are there product that can Clean the paint but yet not haze the gloss paint, so I do not need to re-do the polishing job again.

e) Why machine can help to spread a small amount of wax onto a big panel but not by hand? Not sure if I am correct to have this experience. I have tried both machine (DA) and by hand to spread wax and true enough (like one forum pages here mentioned), machine can spread a small amount of wax evenly to a big area (say a hood) but not by hand. What is the reason? Is if due to the speed of the DA which help to ‘throw’ the wax out from the sponge to the panel? ( Sorry this may be a less relevant question but I just wonder why, and also need a logical answer whenever my friends ask me)

f) Meguiar Cleaner Wax- need to work the product on the paint? Sorry for this question if it sounds silly but I just bought this product and the instructions on the bottle is just too brief.
F1) For this Cleaner Wax, do we need to work on the paint? Or just spread it, let is haze and wipe off ?
F2) If I am using DA polisher with this product, should I use the yellow polish sponge or black (wax) sponge? If I use the black sponge, will it take longer time for the product to work on the paint?

Many Thanks

[pcray1231]

Re: A few questions on Polishing/Waxing

Relative newbie myself, so I'll take a shot, but I'm sure the pros will be in shortly.

a1) I never noticed a haze. Slightly less sharp reflection (but more gloss), yes. You smoothed the clearcoat surface, and now you are putting on a thin clear layer over top. I use Ultimate Liquid Wax, which, after wiping should be the same as your UPW.
a2) To my knowledge there shouldn't be any mismatch within the Meguiar's brand (and probably not any other brand either, but Meg's can't confirm that).
a3) It does not to my knowledge. The ultimate series of waxes doesn't either, but they are purely synthetic. So they will last longer and probably apply better, but some like the "warm" look of Carnuba better.

b) The oils "soak in" to the paint/clear and darken/revive the color. Technically, they probably don't, but rather reside in the pores, I'm not sure. The "shine" is mostly due to smoothing the surface with the abrasives, as well as perhaps filling imperfections like swirls to leave a smoother surface. The abrasive action is permanent, the filling is not, and the oils are not (though by conditioning the paint and helping wax adhere it prevents permanent degradation).

c) SMAT. You still have to work as hard. You do not have to keep working it till it diminishes, you can stop anytime you feel you have the desired effect.

d) Not sure.

e) Yes, it's speed and more constant pressure, typically thicker, stiffer pads, etc. And it can be done by hand, it's just harder

f1) A cleaner wax needs to be worked a little. I'm not talking hardcore buffing like when you compound or polish. But hand applying works it a little, and a little more work than that will increase results. That said, if you are claying and polishing even every few waxes, the cleaner wax may not be helping much, or even hurting. It's really for 1 step, i.e. instead of clay/polish and not in addition to it
f2) What you should use has a lot of variables, including how hard your paint is, how much "correction" it needs, among others. The yellow will cut more (better cleaning, removal of swirls, etc.) but finish worse (slightly less clear). If you want it all, yellow, then black (but at that point you'd be better off with UP on yellow and then a non-cleaner wax on black).

As a general rule, it seems like you are using a lot of different waxes. If you are claying and polishing, I'd say do away with the white wax and the cleaner wax and stick with a finishing wax only, like your ultimate paste or the deep crystal carnuba. If clay/polish isn't getting out all the imperfections, add ultimate compound prior to the polish (only as often as really needed).

[DasBurninator]

Re: A few questions on Polishing/Waxing

A) What pad are you using? Can you get a picture of the haze at all? If you are not getting clarity there could be something wrong with your polishing process or perhaps the wax process
A1) In short, no. Depending on if the wax is synthetic (Ultimate Wax) or natural carnuba, you will get different effects on the paint in how the light reflects, but no haze should happen.
A2) Shouldn't be an issue
A3) I don't think so from what I have researched.

B) The polishing oils are meant as a carrier for the abrasives. The oils will sit on the surface. Sometimes polishing oils can cover up very small scratches or haze. If you are concerned about this you can do an IPA wipedown after polishing to inspect your results.

C) SMAT. It doesn't really change how hard you have to work the polish. If you need something with more cut you would use a product with more cut.

D) Cleaner waxes can haze softer paints, but it is a very very mild hazing that occurs with it. How often are you changing pads? You could just be introducing the embedded dirt into your pad and causing hazing that way.

E) You should be able to spread a small amount of wax on a panel regardless of using a machine or hand. Press the applicator against a panel and it will bring the product out of the applicator and onto the panel and keep applying. You shouldn't be turning a machine up fast enough to "throw" wax anywhere. Low speeds when waxing with machine, you are just spreading, not working the product.

F) You really have me curious on what your technique is after reading this question. Cleaner wax is designed with mild abrasives in it. Megs Cleaner Wax (The consumer liquid is what I am assuming you are referring to) is means to be applied by hand only.

You mentioned you live in South East Asia, where it is pretty humid. What you could be seeing is the product hasn't dried enough before you went to wipe it off of the panel. I've seen this happen and come back later to a hazy car. Is it possible this is what is happening?