how to use my products

[st87]

Hi everyone!

I notice from a few of my searches that a link exists that talks about the "order of aggressiveness" of the new SMAT products. Unfortunately, some of this stuff is quite costly (e.g. M105 1gal costs $59.33USD from Walmart, while retailing $189.75AUD here in Australia, which is approximately $147.63USD, excluding whatever tax you guys typically include in purchases. I do not know why prices advertised in the states don't automatically include the tax for convenience, but that's another story ) so I've been buying the older diminishing abrasives or the consumer stuff. While the mirror glaze range gives you a cutting guide, the consumer products don't tell you have abrasive they are. So, here is what I have at hand:

Pads:
- Red softbuff 2.0 cutting pad
- Yellow softbuff 2.0 polishing pad
- Black softbuff 2.0 finishing pad (which I've been using for wax, but I intend to order another one soon for polishing)
- Wool pads, generic brand, which I've stopped using after getting some nasty holograms with my DA.

Machine:
- DA polisher, some generic brand called "Rockwell". Not much choice here in Australia for enthusiasts.

Cut/Polish:
- M85 diamond cut 2.0
- Ultimate Compound
- Ultimate Polish
- M9 Swirl Remover 2.0
- ScratchX 2.0

Wax:
- NXT TechWax 2.0 liquid wax

So that's my situation I guess. I'm hoping someone could possibly give me the order of aggressiveness on the cut/polish products I have on hand, and which pad to use which product on.
I've also been reading the microfibre system that appears to be a new development. Would using my existing products on microfibre pads give me an advantage, or should I stick to foam if I'm not going to buy the new microfibre specific cutting compounds?

Anyhow, sorry for the long post and hoping to learn from you guys!

[The Guz]

Re: how to use my products

My recommendation would be ultimate compound, ultimate polish and NXT. UC and UP have the latest SMAT abrasive technology and provide good results. You will be happy with this set up. Of course a test spot with the least aggressive combo is always recommended so start with UP and a polishing pad. If you need more correction then go with UC with the yellow pad.

[the other pc]

Re: how to use my products

M85 is a DAT product, formulated for rotary polishing. So while its cut is sort of up there near UC, it's also sort of an apples and oranges comparision.

If somebody has tried it with a DA and liked it, power to 'em. But it's not recommended and the results can't be predicted reliably.

M09 can be used by both DA and rotary (and hand for that matter) but is meant primarily for rotary and has very low cut. By DA it has much less and will give very low levels of correction on modern paints. It's really meant to take a finish that's already at a high level a little bit higher.

.... I do not know why prices advertised in the states don't automatically include the tax for convenience, but that's another story ...

Tax in the US varies state by state, county by county and city by city. So printed prices are always a starting point.


pc

[davey g-force]

Re: how to use my products

Good advice here.

Stick to the more "modern" products you have - UC, UP, ScratchX and NXT wax.

The order aggressiveness (from least to most aggressive) of those three polishes is UP ---> ScratchX ---> UC.

I'd try:
- UC with a yellow pad
- UP can be applied with either a yellow or black pad (depending on how much cut you need, hardness of your paint, etc etc)
- NXT with a black pad or by hand.

Don't forget to do a test spot to dial in the best process for your paint, before repeating over the whole car. Also don't forget to clay after washing / before polishing!

Whereabouts in Aus are you?

[st87]

Re: how to use my products

Hey guys, thanks for the sound advice, and sorry for getting back here so late!

I'm somewhat saddened that the general consensus is to stop using the M9 and M85. I actually bought them recently thinking that the "mirror glaze" stuff would get me better results than the UC. I was also under the impression that the diminising property was a really awesome feature that was superior to the super micro abrasives (I didn't know the SMAT was the newer thing... dammit)

Anyhow, before I got the M85, I was actually on the UC. Not sure if I'm using it right, but after using the UC, initially my car looked quite good. But somehow, after a while, the swirl marks that I tried to remove actually reappeared. My understanding is that a polish is supposed to remove a tiny layer of your paint to smooth it back out, but it seemed as though something was added on to cover the scratches instead. I tried using UP soon after, but it didn't seem to get those swirls off.

M85 is a DAT product, formulated for rotary polishing. So while its cut is sort of up there near UC, it's also sort of an apples and oranges comparision.

I just had a look at the bottle and the back shows hand, da or rotary application, but I think you're right that my DA is making it quite ineffective. However, I did try it out with the red cutting pad with the DA. Besides the swirl marks, I think it's doing alright. I couldn't quite get up a mirror shine because there's still quite a bit of orange peel left (I thought this product was course enough to cut away the orange peel, so I didn't sand down too much). I should probably mention that this is a freshly painted surface that I refinished (with acrylic paint).

Now this might be out of my league.... but a rotary buffer is on sale and I'm feeling tempted. I bought the DA because I'm worried about doing some damage on a rotary (I did learn that it cuts faster than a DA). But seeing as I'm not doing much cutting with my DAT products, maybe I should try it out? I've had some bad experience of accidentally sanding down too much paint so now I've developed a phobia or sorts to sanding.

[Edited for ignorance on how to make quotes]

[st87]

Re: how to use my products

Whereabouts in Aus are you?

Sorry, almost missed this one. I'm in Sydney ;-)

[davey g-force]

Re: how to use my products

A fellow Sydneysider!

Are you sure the swirls you're seeing after a while are actually the same ones? They're not new swirls introduced by washing / drying techniques or even the UC itself are they?

UC is a compound (actually a very good one), and as you said, it does remove a tiny amount of paint to level out scratches and swirls. It can fill in or hide minor imperfections with its polishing oils, though that's not what it was designed to do. Most polishes / compounds from any manufacturer can leave something behind which can mask imperfections, hence why some people like to do a wipe down with IPA to inspect their work prior to waxing / sealing.

Anyway, that Rockwell DA is a SCA job right? I suggest you get a decent DA buffer and try UC again on a yellow pad. Watch some good videos (by guys like Mike Philips or Junkman) to learn a good technique first.

That should do the trick for you, but if not, report back here and we can guide you along the way. What car are you working on? Colour? Any pics of the condition of the paint?

Regarding the rotary; I say don't try to run before you can crawl. Invest in a good DA first.

Regarding the orange peel; you could try removing that - only because it's a repainted surface - it's not advisable on factory finishes. But OP removal would require a more aggressive approach like several stages of wetsanding followed by compounding / polishing, or those new denim pads followed by compounding / polishing. This is not something I would just jump into without research and/or practice. Unless the OP is very heavy, I'd suggest just leaving it - at least for now.

Regarding your question on MF pads; yes, they will give you an advantage in terms of more cut over foam pads, so that's always an option if the UC on foam doesn't work. But again, start with a proper DA and UC on yellow foam with proper technique first, and then go from there.

[st87]

Re: how to use my products

Ahh someone close by!
I'm pretty sure they are the same ones because they were straight. At this stage, I would like to clarify that there were also 1500 grit sanding marks which I tried to get rid of with UC. After some buffing, it looked great, but once I washed it, the finish became less shiny and the sanding marks reappeared along with some swirls.

Rockwell is from SCA... Since you're in Sydney too, can you tell me where I can buy a better DA from? I actually thought that the machine wouldn't matter too much because they're supposed to do the same thing. The pad quality, however, was what I poured more money into.

[davey g-force]

Re: how to use my products

I was lucky enough to get mine from Motor Active (the Aus distributor of Meguiars) back when they still had them. I'm pretty sure they don't sell them any more, but you can check.

Their head office is in Silverwater - if it's near you and you ever want to check it out, it's like heaven for detailers! (Well for me anyway)

Failing that, you could try online stores like waxit.com.au or carcareproducts.com.au

I've bought stuff from both of the above and both are good (especially waxit), if not a little expensive. They don't carry any Meguiars, but I'm thinking a DA like a Griots Garage, Mint DAS-6, or Concours DualForce 908 would be good for your needs.

Now that I think about it some more, if money is an issue, perhaps you could step up to more aggressive compounds and pads with the DA you already have. Compare the specs of your DA (power, orbit, rpm etc) with the specs of the DAs I mentioned above. If you think yours is not bad, perhaps you can keep it and step up to M105, M100, M101 or D300 on a MF pad. That will give you more correction if you're trying to remove deeper sanding marks.