Why isn't #83 just a cleaner?

[05PhillyStang]

Over the past few years, I've developed a little experience in detailing my vehicles and one big thing that I've learned and that I've heard a million times on this site is that a dedicated product works best. A cleaner/wax is a good product to be used as a quick one-step, but you'll get better results if you us seperate products.

In my case, I use DC1, DC2, NXT Tech Wax. This site always makes mention of #83, followed by #80, then topped with a wax or sealant. Most of the time, the thread is about application with a PC, which I will admit I have no experience with. That said, wouldn't it be better if 83 was a dedicated CLEANER?

[Mike Phillips]

Glad you asked that question... the answer is No.

Meguiar's pioneered the concept of an in-between product when they introduced M09 Swirl Remover in approximately 1986/1987

The purpose of this new product was to bridge the gap between a dedicated paint cleaner or compound and a pure polish or non-abrasive glaze.

You see, when basecoat/clearcoat systems were introduced, the new clear coats were found to be very scratch-sensitive.

Going from a compound to a hand glaze wasn't working, cars would look all swirly as the pure polish wouldn't remove the swirls left behind by compounds and paint cleaners.

Thus Meguiar's created a dual action product, known as a cleaner/polish. The purpose of which is to start out aggressive enough to remove any remaining swirls left behind by the heavy and medium compound procedure, yet breakdown to leave a swirls free finish.

It's interesting how since Meguiar's introduced this type of product how just lately others are jumping on the bandwagon.

Anyway, an in-between, or dual action product is necessary when working on scratch-sensitive paints.

One more note, the words dual action on the label of M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish have nothing to do with the fact that the G100 is a dual action polisher, the product works with this tool, but the words dual action as they are used on the M83 label are because the diminishing abrasives start out aggressive, and then break down, thus the product offers to types of actions, abrading, and final polishing.

[05PhillyStang]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
You see, when basecoat/clearcoat systems were introduced, the new clear coats were found to be very scratch-sensitive.

Going from a compound to a hand glaze wasn't working, cars would look all swirly as the pure polish wouldn't remove the swirls left behind by compounds and paint cleaners.

Thanks for the clarification Mike. But your comment above begs the question: If compounds and paint cleaner leave swirls on basecoat/clearcoat finishes, why does DC1 seem to work fine on these types of finishes.

Judging solely on your comment, it implies that cleaners are harmful to clearcoat finishes. We know that DC1 is a paint cleaner but we know that it is clearcoat safe. What is in DC1 that prevents this from happening and why isn't there (or is there?) a cleaner/polish in the deep crystal line?

Just playing devil's advocate here

[ebpcivicsi]

I am not Mike, but perhaps this will make *some* sense.


DC is a non-abrasive paint cleaner. It is a retail product that is formulated to be safe for the average consumer. If you notice most if not all of the swirl removing capablities of the DC1 lies soley in the application method/material. While it is quite capable of removing stains, oxidation, and blemishes it does little for swirls and marring.

IMO, paint cleaners don't necessarily instill swirls into paint, but some of the heaveir machine applied compounds don't finish out to a "ready for wax" finish. Becasue of this combination products continue to polish the dullness left from the heavy compound while imparting a high gloss to the finish. This leaves the finish "ready to wax." IMO you are basically comparing apples to oranges(retail vs professional line).

[Mike Phillips]

ebpcivicsi pretty much nailed it, allow me to post something to make you think...

Originally posted by 05PhillyStang
Judging solely on your comment, it implies that cleaners are harmful to clearcoat finishes.

This depends on your perspective. If you have a show car that you just had painted, and the painter's helper has wet-sanded the finish completely flat and free of orange peel, the next step is to remove the sanding marks. To do this you need a product that will abrade the finish. Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner is non-abrasive, I'm afraid it won't do much to remove the sanding marks. So there is a purpose for each product, Meguiar's always teaches to Evaluate the condition of the paint. This will help you to choose the appropriate product for the job.

We know that DC1 is a paint cleaner but we know that it is clearcoat safe. What is in DC1 that prevents this from happening and why isn't there (or is there?) a cleaner/polish in the deep crystal line?

Just playing devil's advocate here

DC1 is purposefully a very gentle paint cleaner for light cleaning. All Meguiar's products if used according to their directions are clearcoat safe.