What is this, and how can I fix it?

[davey g-force]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Now that you have it, try the orange pad with UC (test spot) and see if that works. If not, you can order some MF pads.

Not a waste at all IMO..

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

OK, an update. I quick detailed and clayed a small area and tried Ultimate Compound with the CCS Orange pad on the DA. These pics are after 3 passes, sorry for the crappy iphone pics. It definitely helped, taking away all the white oxidation and revealing the metallic paint. Huge improvement. However, the patterns are still visible under oblique reflection - it appears almost as if the clear coat itself is patterned. You can see it in the specular sun reflection in the second pic, and at the corner of the corrected area in the third pic. Not sure what to do from here - whether I should just go with this followed by M205 and wax (it will look much much better and I would be happy), or see if I can fix the underlying defect using something other than Ultimate Compound.

One thing - I noticed when using the DA that the UC went "clear" very fast - I never saw the white film that I used to see with hand application. I used the recommended amount of product - should I be using more?

[J4o2el7]

That is a huge improvement! You might want to try 105 it is more aggressive. You might be able to knock it all out. Looks 100 times better!

[The Guz]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

That's a big difference. You can see what a good job UC does. The defect seems to be a little deeper than what UC can take care of. I would agree with Michael Stoops on using the microfiber cutting pads.

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Thanks everyone. I went ahead and finished up with the UC, don't have pics yet due to weather but will get those taken. It made a huge improvement, but like I said it is still possible to see the patterns. They now look like a patterned transparent "sugar glaze" - maybe this is the clear coat? I am still not sure what I am looking at, but I will take the suggestions given here and try the MF cutting disk and D300 on the problem areas. I will then follow up with M205 with a white CCS pad, then NXT2.0 paste since I have some lying around. Will be interesting to see what happens! I will post before and after pics.

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Here is a pic of the roof after UC with the orange cutting pad. Compared to the before pics it is an incredible improvement. Some defect remains as you can see - the first section I did looked better, the compound may have dried on the pad before I did the rest, so that could be part of the problem. Also, I had a hard time being consistent with pressure in the middle of the roof because it was hard to reach. But, even the first section has the transparent pattern, so I think trying the MF system is a good idea.

[davey g-force]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Awesome, good to see you're getting good results. I concure about stepping it up to MF pads with D300, or even your UC.

I will take the suggestions given here and try the MF cutting disk and D300 on the problem areas. I will then follow up with M205 with a white CCS pad, then NXT2.0 paste since I have some lying around.

^^ That's a great plan..

[The Guz]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Looks much better. The defect looks like it's pretty deep into the clear. The MF pads should be able to get it out. You may want to get a stool to get the canter part of the roof.

[Sleper]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

it looking good. thanks for taking the time to update. good luck going forward to finish.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Wow, that is an incredible improvement especially considering the level of defect and the fact that this is your first time using a DA!!

OK, so there is still some remaining issue that you want to get rid of. Before changing liquid and pad, let's look at maybe refining your technique a bit more. Rather than ask exactly how you did this, how about we point out some technique specifics and let you critique yourself a bit............

• The tool should be set at speed 5 or 5 1/2
• Product should be dispensed in a ring about 1/4" thick and roughly 1" in from the edge of the pad. Dispensing in the shape of an "X" is also suitable, but since a DA tends to move product toward the center of the pad naturally, it's best not to give it too much of a head start here.
• Downward pressure should be sufficient to compress the pad noticeably and slow down the tool rotation. Sometimes making a couple of marks on the edge of the backing plate with a Sharpie or a piece of masking tape helps to visualize pad spin. It doesn't have to be moving fast, but it definitely should be moving.
• Keep the pad as flat against the paint as possible - tipping the tool at an angle will cause the pad to stop rotating
• Work in an area no larger than 2' x 2' - in this case, we'd opt for an even smaller area given the level of defect we're up against.
• Move the tool slowly across the paint. Many people move much too quickly and that just doesn't give the product enough dwell time to get the job done.

You've made massive progress, and that tells us you are definitely on the right track. If your first attempt barely made a dent, we would not hesitate to recommend stepping up to a more aggressive liquid/pad combo. But if this is the result of your first attempt, sheesh, keep going!!!! No offense, but we doubt you're an expert paint polisher after a single go with a DA...... but you've made a remarkable improvement and you should be very encouraged by this progress. We sure as heck are!!

Part of the beauty of the DA is that it's incredibly safe to use while still being a very effective tool. But if you compromise any one of the above points you will immediately reduce the results. Compromise any one of those points severely and you'll really struggle... but miss the mark on more than one and you'll just frustrate yourself. In the course of teaching countless seminars, demos, classes, training programs, etc we see small errors in technique causing major slow downs in progress. Again, given your results here, we'd stick with the same product/pad combo for another, slightly more aggressive run.

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Thanks Michael!! I am so glad I found this forum, it is so great to be able to get this level of pro advice and encouragement, especially for a newbie such as myself.

I read your excellent post, and as soon as I got the chance I went out a tried another section with UC. You are right - in hindsight I made some mistakes the first time I tried it this weekend. I had gumming of the pad, which reminded me that I was supposed to clean on the fly, which I started doing at that point - but obviously the last section I did was not as good as the first. So this evening I taped off a section from that side of the roof, and this is what it looked like.






After I had finished up yesterday, I rinsed out the orange pad using just water and squeezed it dry, then left it out overnight. This afternoon, I prepped the pad exactly as you described above, and raised the speed of the DA from 5 to 5.5. I made sure to keep the DA flat, and pressed on it so that the foam was compressed (I could tell based on the overhang of the pad around the backing disk). What happened next was a bit of a disaster. The pad felt dry, but as soon as I turned on the DA product went spraying everywhere. I went ahead and worked half the section with the wet product, going very slow, and doing 1 horizontal pass, one vertical pass, one horizontal, and one final vertical. I wiped up the product, which was still wet on the surface, and tried to clean up the product from the rest of the roof, windows, trim, etc. I cleaned the pad using a microfiber towel, applied 3 pea sized drops, then did the other half the same way. I did a second application over both halves, and it was only a little wet this time. I finished up with a third application, which went very much like I was accustomed to (ie the product was transparent on the surface the whole time I was working it). At this point I think the pad was fully dry. This was the final result:







So, there is definitely an improvement as you predicted, even with the mishap with the wet pad. As you can imagine it is very hard to take pictures of the defect even with my digital SLR on manual focus, but you can still see the pattern in the paint. It is most apparent as waviness in the reflection of the house siding (compare to the sunroof glass on the left). Inspecting the taped border, I can tell that this application did knock down the thickness of the lines a bit.

I had already ordered the MF cutting disk, the D300 compound, the backing pad that goes with the 5.5" disk, and a pad spur yesterday, and those will arrive on Wednesday. I could try UC again with a dry pad (it seems to be dry now, so I just put it in a Ziploc), and send the new supplies back if I don't need them. But, at this point that side of the roof has had 6 'applications' of UC, of course with the caveats that the first time I had gumming, and the second time I had soup. So, I am leaning toward giving the MF system a shot on the roof and decklid - please let me know what you think.

On the plus side I am getting better and learning some valuable lessons. I will be doing a makeover on my wife's neglected 2005 Pathfinder (black!) next, so these lessons will be put to good use! I'll start another thread for that one - it is gonna be a doozy.

[The Guz]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Nice job. It's getting there.

[davey g-force]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Looking good!

That "waviness in the reflection" of the paint is simply what's known as "orange peel" and is present in varying degrees in 99% of factory paints. You don't see it on the sunroof glass because, well it's unpainted glass.

Is that the only issue you're still concerned about, or are some of the original hazy patterns still there and just not being captured in the photo?

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Looking good!

That "waviness in the reflection" of the paint is simply what's known as "orange peel" and is present in varying degrees in 99% of factory paints. You don't see it on the sunroof glass because, well it's unpainted glass.

Is that the only issue you're still concerned about, or are some of the original hazy patterns still there and just not being captured in the photo?

Thanks! No, I'm talking about the network of patterns from the original defect. It is hard to capture in photos because the UC took out so much of the white oxidation or stain. Imagine a thin layer of clear syrup on the surface in exactly the same pattern as the first pics I posted in the thread and you'll have it. It is easy to see in person if you know to look for it.

[Dolphin Gray]

Re: What is this, and how can I fix it?

Nice job. It's getting there.

Thanks for the help Guz!