Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

[larry0071]

Going from a PC to a Flex forced rotation, am I going to see much faster correction with the same Meguiars foam pads I've been using and 105/205 or Ultimate Compound/Ultimate Polish?

How about when using the Paint Reconditioning Cream?

With the PC I can get where I want to, but I often spend 2 days and 15-20 on the compound/polish part of the job. Unacceptable! I need to speed the process up, so it looks like I need to step up to a forced rotation or a rotary. I'm worried that a rotary will get me into trouble.

So I'm looking at the flex. Give me some input please on stepping from a PC to a Flex. Will I be pleased with the speed at getting through a correction style detail? My goal is to take daily driven commuter cars and flip the magic switch and take the paint back to nearly swirl and scratch free. I can do it now, like I said, but I'm killing myself to get there with what I think is the wrong machine for the job.

[imacarnut]

Re: Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

PC vs. Flex

[The Guz]

Re: Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

What about a Rupes 21 or 15?

[wifpd4]

Re: Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

You'll find you like the Flex, but it's heavy compared to to a PC. Mine (Flex) seems to get extremely hot. However, it is much more efficient than the PC. Less time required to reach, perhaps slightly, better results. I use a combination of Meguiar's foam and MF pads. With the PC a wider range of pad textures and sizes. Smaller pads on the PC as I have just the one fixed backing plate on the Flex. It would take real muscle to stop the rotation of a Flex, so it is always churning away at defects. It rarely see 5 and has never seen 6 on the dial.

Paint Reconditioning Creme is a product for fast turn over of low maintenance cars. An all-in-one with the ability to be a chameleon with different pads, pressures and speeds. I use it to save money and time on average cars.

The gifted threes (3 hundreds) on microfiber seem to occupy my attention for quality work on quality vehicles. (Keep in mind this is a hobby for me, not a profession where I need to feed a family.) I pick up the Flex to solve problems and the PC to take a vacation from the heavy lifting of a Flex. I have two PCs and one Flex they all have different sized backing plates and all get used on the quality cars. The threes and the 105-205 combination are the backbones of my products. Black Wax for fun with my own car.

[greg0303]

Re: Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

Due to forced rotation mechanism Flex XC 3401 VRG behaves more like rotary buffers. If buffing pads are not fully flat on a polishing surface, it will either "walk" towards operator or away. It is impossible to stop pad rotation, comparing to traditional D/A polishers, which bug down under pressure and just oscilate without rotation. The effectiveness of Flex D/A is much higher which equals much faster defect removal. I estimate its power at about 75% of a rotary buffer.
Lake Country Mfg. designed an universal backing plate which allows Flex 3401 to work with 5.5" and 4" buffing pads.

Rupes D/A polishers have large orbit/throw, between 12-21 mm, comparing to 6-8 mm in traditional D/A, but no forced rotation. They do not require heavy to moderate down pressure and offer smooth polishing cycle. The new Duetto model (12 mm orbit/throw) is the same size like Porter Cable D/A, it's called Porter Cable on steroids.

You already take an advantage of Meguiar's newest products, using non-diminishing super micro abrasives technology (SMAT), like M105/M205/UC/UP/D151. Another way to increase the effectiveness of your D/A polisher would be to use DA Microfiber Correction System with designated microfiber (extra) cutting/finishing pads. The System has three liquids: D300 Correction Compound, D301 Finishing Wax and D302 DA Polish. It's extremely effective if production car detailing is needed (quick defect removal, easy on/off). DA Microfiber Correction System can be a 2-step or 3-step application.

Another way to make your D/A polisher work more effectively is to use smaller and thinner buffing pads, like Lake Country Mfg. 5.5" Hydrotech low profile pads. They are less than 1" thick which makes them spin easier.

[larry0071]

I'm not doing this as a job, I'm doing friends and family and getting paid a fraction of what I would want if I were doing this as a means to feed my family.

I rely on the paint Reconditioning Cream as a finishing polish with my PC using a Meguiars polishing pad and light pressure on speed 5.

I typically run the Meguiars Burgundy compound pad with the 105 or Ultimate Compound on speed 5 or if the paint is heavily swirled I'll kick to speed 6, but that's hard on the hands at 6!

If it's a well cared for paint with light swirls I'll go for the PRC alone or lead it with 205 and the polishing pad. I typically always finish with that light run of the PRC, that really seams to give a very glossy and clear surface to the paint, and once the sealant is applied it looks pretty sick!

What I'm trying to "fix" with a Flex/Rupes is the paint that's been abused for years of poor washing both by hand and by car tunnel washes with heavy deep swirls.

Those, even with the Meguiars MF pad and 105 on speed setting 6 can many sets of product/polish, product/polish to get down to a finish that I would be proud of on my car. I can easily spend an hour or more on the hood alone.

I have no thoughts of parting ways with my PC, I'm looking for a bigger gun though for the jobs that the Porter Cable just can't blast easily through.

If I wasn't so afraid of them, I'd try to run with a rotary, I know they can wear through the swirls really fast. But they can also wear through the entire clear really fast and have me paying for a body shop bill.

[wifpd4]

Re: Going from a PC to a Flex, what will I see happen?

Larry, sounds like you are not only using a hammer, but a sledge hammer to do paint correction. Those cars must be in horrible condition. Are you working in 2 foot by 2 foot areas and using slow arm speed and firm arm pressure? Mike Phillips often referred to it as "passion". Working with passion.

Check this Michael Stoops discussion for talk about the burgundy pad.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?45702-D-A-Buffing-101-An-Introduction-to-the-G110v2-(and-similar)&p=435806&viewfull=1#post435806

Quoting:

Meguiar’s also makes a foam cutting pad, the W7207 Soft Buff 2.0 burgundy cutting pad. While we don’t recommend this pad for use on a D/A buffer like the G110v2, it can be used in a pinch if necessary. The potential downside to using this pad on this tool is that it is aggressive enough that, when coupled with the motion of the tool, some hazing of the paint is common. Yes, the extra aggressiveness can help to get through a stubborn area like a badly etched bird dropping, but for routine use the downside outweighs the upside. Use it only if you absolutely have to. The same can be said of running the tool on speed 6. Prolonged use of maximum speed puts a lot of stress on the hook & loop attachment system of the pad and backing plate. Due to the constantly changing direction of the pad, it is essentially trying to break free from the backing plate, and that generates a lot of friction and heat on the hook & loop system. We’ve seen many cases of pads from various manufacturers failing due to excessive, prolonged heat brought about by constantly running the tool at maximum speed. But again, for removal of a specific, stubborn defect, that extra speed can be a benefit for the short term. Just use it sparingly if you must.

[larry0071]

Honestly, it depends a lot on the car owner. Take the 04 Grand prix I did, it was 10 years old and appeared to have been kept washed but no indication of wax. To replicate the depth and amount of swirls I would need to use 800 grit on a da and go over the car. It was just horrible. I spent a week on that car.

Then you have the Accura I did this weekend. It was rotary buffed a year ago and washed and waxed regularly. I did that entire car in 6 hours and never used anything but the Meguiars polishing and finishing pad.

With the long hard salty winters and people's common weekly use of brush type car tunnel washes, I suspect we have finishes that would make warm climate details want to break down and cry.

Every car I've done had gotten extreme reactions from the owners, be it family or friend. Some have used detail shops in the pay and tell me that what I'm doing is miles above what a $150 detail shop gives. I do every vehicle as if it were mine. I don't consider the dollars per hour at all. That said, why spend a week on a car if I could do it to the same level in a couple days using a better tool?

Sometimes a sledge hammer is the right tool for the job.