Problem with Show Car Glaze #7

[jkimball]

I have been using Meguiar's Show Care Glaze #7 on my 69 SS350 Camaro for years and love it. I just purchased a new 2004 Nissan 350Z. I parked under a tree frequented by birds and you can guess the rest. After cleaning there was still some surface damage. I thought that the polish would do the trick but shortly after applying it (by hand) I noticed small raised spots on the paint everywhere I used the polish. These raised spots will not come off and I have no idea what caused them. I tried some Meguar's Deep Crystal System Polish and it does not seem to have the same effect but am gun shy now. Anyone have any idea what went wrong? I did not order any of those dealer option coatings so unless the dealer pulled one over on me, there should just be the basic Nissan paint and clear coat. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze is a pure polish and was not designed to protect the finish like a wax or sealant. Moreover, it does not contain any ingredients with the intended purpose of cleaning the paint. It's main purpose is to add rich TS Oils to the paint to further beautify the finish. Then follow up with 2 coats of NXT Tech Wax for protection.


If you have bird crud and other contaminents, you first need to discover what the other bumps are. Since you parked under a tree, my guess is that it is tree sap. Some tree's weep a misty type of sap that ends up leaving little bumps all over the horizontal surfaces. I bet the lower parts of the doors etc do not have any dots, correct? If this is the case, it is sometime of fallout contaminent.

If it is tree sap, I suggest washing the car thoroughly. Sometimes simply washing the paint will remove the dots. Then I would use Meguiar's Quik Clay and clay the entire car. Follow up with Meguiar's #9 Swirl Remover. Hopefully this will remove the bumps. If not, please let us know and we will try something else.

As for the Bird crud, the acid in their droppings can actually etch into the paint. I suggest using Meguiar's ScratchX and Mike's application method (see link) for removal.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1516

I hope this helps!

Tim

[jkimball]

I always follow the polish with a couple coats of Mirror Glaze #26 yellow wax since the polish takes all of the existing wax off. I use the polish to add the oils back to the paint (both my cars are black and get dull fast) and to remove the light surface scratches that come from frequent washing and drying. Today I tried an experiment with the polish. I washed the car, looked at the surface to ensure the spots I was seeing were not there already and then polished a small portion. New raised surfaces appeared before the polish was even close to dry. It really appears that the polish is reacting with something on the surface of the car. I am going to check out some of the Nissan forums to see if anyone else has had the same experience.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Again, there is nothing in #7 that will remove swirls. At best the TS Oils will help to cover extremely mild swirls but not remove them.

As for the bumps, do you have a picture you can post? I would like to see exactly what we are talking about. I have never heard of a problem like that, and I have used #7 for close to 20 years on all types of finishes.

You say that you top it with #26. Did you have any repair work done to the car (ie. do any of the sections with the bumps have fresh paint?)?

Please post the photos and we can go from there.

Tim

[RamAirV1]

Maybe he means that the #7 is gumming up and not wiping off easily. That can happen if too much is applied. That thread that Mike posted on using #7 and letting it skin would be helpful.

#81 or the DC#2 would be a lot easier to use on modern clearcoat paints like on the Z. You could also use the PC to apply the #7. That would make it much easier.

RamAirV1

[Tim Lingor]

Hey RamAirV1,

Good point! Perhaps he is referring to the residue from using too much product.

I went and found Mike's Application guide for #7 Show Car Glaze (I sure wish Show Car Garage comes back up as I have all kinds of stuff saved over there!)

I have paraphrased to actaully shorten the post! How Mike does not have carpal tunnel is beyond me!

Hi,
As someone else pointed out, #7 is a high oil content product. In fact, it's mostly oil. I could tell you more about it, I have over 7 pages on just this product alone in my forthcoming book, How to Polish Paint. it's really quite a unique product.

For the last 15 years I have seen a lot people comment as to how hard the product is to get off.

Usually, (and I'm not saying this is what your did), the person makes a couple of mistakes.

#7 is a non-drying oil.

One of the many things it can be used for is to make paint look wet, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.

The reason it can do this is because it is a non-drying oil. Think about it, when you get a brand new paint job, or if you spray some rattle can paint… before it dries… it looks wet, because it is. It hasn't dried.

It's hard to get the "Wet Look" with something they dries, especially if it turns white/opaque.

You cannot make something "more clear" with something that is "opaque".

#26 Yellow Wax, (which is a polymer/synthetic for the most part), dries clear, it does not turn white. It turns the surface very dark and deep however.

So the mistake most people make when using the #7 is this.

1. They apply it to thick - this makes it extremely hard to remove
2. They try to remove it like a wax.

Two tips.

First Tip - Apply #7 with a thin coat

The idea is to "Push" the product into the pores of the paint, allow it to cure or dry, (if it's a drying product) then wipe off the material remaining on the surface. Sure some product remains on the surface, and there are a lot of opinions concerning "Layering", but suffice to say, there is a point of "Diminishing Returns".

If it were true you could create a "film-build" of product, that would mean that after enough coats, you would no longer be applying a coat of product onto paint, but in fact would be applying a coat of product onto a "film-build of product", (In other words, your layers of wax/polish/protectant/polymer/sealant/synthetic, or whatever word/term you want to use to describe your protective coating.

Kind of like trying to re-create a "Clear Coat". Last time I checked, nobody's product is clear, at least not like the clear resin a clear coat of paint is made from, (clear resin is often slightly amber in color)

So I don't know if I subscribe to the "Layering" theory. I am experimenting however, with multiple coats after coat of product on my black demo panel here in my office, so far, no "visible film-build". I do believe that two thin coats are better than one, and three coats wont' hurt. After that, I don't know. I would at least let some time go by.

So apply #7 thin. Use a soft foam applicator pad.

Second Tip - Removing #7 requires a special technique, not the same kind of technique you remove a wax with.

Most people remove their wax like this. Start in one area, begin wiping until all of the wax is removed in that area and then move on to virgin territory.

This will not work for #7. The "Act" of removing #7, tends to "Re-liquefy" the product, basically creating the smearing around effect that you experience when you apply it.

Instead, "Break" or "Disrupt" the "Continuous" layer of film-build and then move on to a virgin area and "Break this film-build up.

You see, #7 doesn't actually dry, but… it will "Skin", somewhat like homemade pudding.

This "Skin" is easier to break up and remove then the more liquid film is.

By breaking up the continuos film-build and then moving on, you are exposing a fresh layer of the film to the air where it will skin. The next time you come around, it will be easier to break up and remove.

So the idea is to apply a thin coat to the entire car.

Then, Go around the car two to three times, removing a little bit at a time.

A big soft, high quality, 100% cotton, terry cloth towel works best for the first two passes, and then switch over to a Microfiber polishing cloth for the last pass. Microfiber polishing cloths have an affinity for both water and oil based liquids and will remove oily residues much better with less fiber inflicted scratches.

Anyway, that’s what my experience has taught me after applying and removing gallons of #7 over the years, to every kind of car with every known type of paint.

Another person mentioned it will wash off. This is true. #7 is a "Body Shop" safe polish. It has no "Lasting Characteristics", i.e. it contains no ingredients that will affect "Paint Adhesion", typically waxes or silicones. (There are what are called, "Paintable Polymers", Meguiar's uses these in the "Speed Glaze", a body shop safe, cleaner/polish).

#7 is not meant to last. The idea is it will not semi-permanently "seal" or "Cap" the pores of the paint. (waxes, sealants, synthetics, polymers, whatever you prefer to call them act to semi-permanently seal or cap the pores of the paint. Nothing is permanent, at least not according to the theory of Entropy. This can lead into an entire discussion of "Permeable and Impermeable, but I digress).

This is important when used on solvent-borne paints because it allows the solvents to continue to work their way out of the paint resin through "capillary-action", (I think). The idea being that paint that is fully cured will be harder and last longer than paint that is not fully cured, i.e. softer and will not last as long.

How important this is to Catalyzed paints I do not know. The Synthetic wax crowd usually tells everyone it is safe to wax catalyzed paint shortly after they are sprayed. While this may be safe, I know that paint manufactures "Still" recommend waiting 30/60/90 days before you apply any type of "Sealant", i.e. wax to the surface. Best to follow manufactures recommendations when dealing with something as expensive a s new paint job, not to mention all of the work and inconvenience getting a car painted causes.

#7, in my opinion works better on single-stage finishes, either modern or traditional. For the wet-look, either Deep Crystal Polish, (very much like #7 but in Meguiar's Consumer line), is easier to apply and remove or #80 Hand Polish in the Meguiar's 80's series, (Body shop products, only comes in a quart).

I'm sorry you had a hard time applying and removing the product, perhaps if you try again, following my tips you will have better results.

By the way, as someone else commented, usually, #7 is applied first, then wax is applied over it. This is because the #7 is water soluble and the wax isn't', thus the wax will act to "Lock" or "Seal" in the #7.

However… right before a show… to make the paint look wet and to fill in hairline scratches, it is perfectly aright to apply the #7 on top of the wax, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.

It was never formulated to be a lasting product, but instead a Beauty product.

With that said… if your goal is to make the paint it's darkest, deepest and wettest looking, then I submit your best bet is a product that is oily and doesn't dry. Yes, it might be temporary, but the show only last one to two days sometimes three.


That's all … hope this helps,

Mike Phillips

** I also moved the thread to the Detailing 101 forum

Cheers!

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jkimball
It really appears that the polish is reacting with something on the surface of the car. I am going to check out some of the Nissan forums to see if anyone else has had the same experience.

Well, I'm not sure what your seeing, but luckily, M07 Show Car Glaze has a history of over 70 years of not causing any of the kinds of problems you describe.

M07 came out sometime in the 1930's, it is formulated to be used on fresh paint, that's another way of saying it's extra safe for cured paint, especial the tough, resilient modern clear coat finishes high caliber companies like Nissan apply to their cars.

The root cause is the problem, look into this.

[RamAirV1]

Mike, what is your recommended removal method for #80 or DC#2? I apply it with polishing pad on the PC and wipe it off with an Ultimate Wipe, I don't let it skin.

My recommendation in this case is to use #81. Much easier to work with. Applying #7 with a PC seems to help too.

RamAirV1

[jkimball]

Tough to take a picture of the surface of a black car with a cheap camera but this is the best I could come up with. Looks like I have been using the #7 for the wrong thing to begin with. I figured that since it said polish it would contain some abrasives but from reading the thread on #7 it appears that it is mostly oils. I think the oils were filling in the very shallow surface scratches that I was going after and making them appear to be gone. Still does not explain the bumps. I can assure you that it is not #7 build up because I picked at one and it is really hard.

[RamAirV1]

From the looks of it, that's either tree sap or road sealant. Looks more like tree sap. It can be a real PITA to get off, especially if it has had a chance to set it. I would go to a PBE and get some Overspray Clay. It's the best for the really nasty stuff. I have not used the Megs Consumer Clay versions (hard to find) and usually use Clay Magic. I don't know if the Clay Magic will get that off or not.

RamAirV1

[rusty bumper]

Hi jkimball.......Welcome to the forum!

If clay doesn't help much, then I would try rubbing alcohol or WD-40.

Looks like paint overspray to me, but it could be tree sap.

[slippysmit]

Looks like tree sap to me. I've found the best way to remove it is get my fingernail at the base of it and "push" it off. I don't have much of a fingernail, so it's pretty safe. I then follow up by claying and using a good paint cleaner like DC1 or MPPC (no polish will remove sap)

-slippy

[Mike Phillips]

I would try claying first, as recommended by 2hotford,

Here's a little bit of information on the different types of polishes Meguiar's offers from our FAQ.


Step-3 Polishing



Meguiar's offers two types of polishes, Cleaner Polishes and Pure Polishes. Cleaner Polishes are for removing very light or fine defects while restoring a crystal clear, smooth high gloss surface. Pure polishes are for finishes already in excellent condition and are for the purpose or creating brilliant high gloss with deep dark reflections.

If you look in Webster's Dictionary under the word polish, one of the definitions they include reads like this:

"A preparation that is used to produce gloss, and often color for the protection and decoration of a surface."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Pure Polishes. Meguiar's pure polishes are designed to create brilliant high gloss while preparing the surface for the application of a protective coating. Meguiar's pure polishes accomplish this without the use of abrasives.


Another definition found in Webster's Dictionary for polish is,

"To make smooth and glossy by friction."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Cleaner/Polishes. Meguiar's cleaner polishes are formulated to very gently abrade the surface with Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive TM and Buffered Abrasive TM technology to remove the finest defects and create a perfectly smooth, high gloss finish.

Depending on what type of paint you're working on, traditional paints like lacquers and enamels, or catalyzed clear coats, Meguiar's has the products specifically designed to work on both types of paints, not to mention many other surfaces such as plastics and polyester resins (Fiberglas Gel-coats).


Meguiar's Trade Secret Polishing Oils
The trade secret oils Meguiar's uses in both types of polishes are unique to the industry and to this day have never been surpassed for creating deep, dark reflections and brilliant high gloss by any of our competitors in over 100 years.

The oils Meguiar's uses are also important in maintaining the original condition of the paint by filling in the naturally occurring microscopic pores and surface imperfections thus preventing detrimental substances and elements as simple as water, or worse, acid-rain, from entering into these pores and microscopic surface imperfections thus causing oxidation and chemical etching. These oils act to replace the original resins as they wear away through natural processes.

When paint is new, it is the most impermeable it will ever be, this means it is a very smooth non-porous, continuous film. With age, exposure to the environment and micro-scratching caused by day-in, day-out wear and tear, your paint develops micro-fissures in the surface along with other defects. These micro-fissures and other defects act to make the continuous film or coating of paint more porous. As this happens, your car's finish becomes more vulnerable to corrosive elements that will attack and degrade your finish.


Remember, waxes, synthetic or otherwise, are meant to be Sacrificial Barriers with the intended purpose sealing the surface, while blocking those things that would attack your paint, from coming into direct contact with the paint.

"Waxes protect your finish by sacrificing themselves so that your paint doesn't have to"

An analogy is your skin. In the same way you can clean, polish and protect your skin, you can clean, polish and protect your car's finish. Soap can be used to clean your skin and remove dirt from the pores. Skin lotions can be used to moisturize your skin, conditioning it and making it more clear and beautiful. Protection products like lotions used to protect hands from exposure to chemicals and UV protectants can be applied to help protect your skin from the things that would attack your skin if these harmful things could come into direct contact with your skin.

While human skin and automotive paint are very different, the analogy is very similar. With Meguiar's, you can:

* Wash your car's finish to remove unwanted and accumulated dirt contaminants
* Clean your paint with our special paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes
* Polish your paint with our pure polishes to create unequaled beauty
* Protect your paint with our advanced paint protection products
* Maintain your car's finish using our fast and easy to use maintenance products.


The unique thing about Meguiar's highly specialized trade secret oils is their ability to restore and maintain the Optical Clarity of both single stage and clear coat paints in a way that waxes alone cannot match, (both natural and synthetic), the results of which are demonstrated in side-by-side comparisons.

[TWW]

Tree sap or aphid droppings are possible causes. If they harden almost immediately, and are more or less clear in color, I suggest it is an aphid problem. Either way, I have had success removing them using the # 7 itself. Put a drop on each spot, let it sit for 15-20 minutes then you can wipe them off. The oil in # 7 softens the resins or shellacs and allows easy removal.

[jks79ta]

I would like to say "thank you" to everyone on this thread, I use Gold Class exclusively on my black 79 TA, and by reading this entire thread I found a few issues I need to address and some great tips. I don't have a smearing or particle issue, but I have occasional scratch issues.