New Paint Half Door

[BlackRam]

I had some scratches/ding on my passenger side front door/front panel, it was painted by the dealer around first day or 2 of november. I did not apply megs 21 to that area but everywhere else. it has not been at a min. 47 days. i know they did not paint the whole thing, but they did do more than just touch up paint. can i put megs 21 on that area tomorrow?
thanks

[TurboJoe]

Re: New Paint Half Door

The general rule of thumb with fresh paint, is to wait 3 months (or 90 days). Even though paint dries to the touch in a matter of hours, it takes this long for the solvents to fully evaporate out of the clearcoat. This process could be sped up by a bake cycle immediately after spraying, or warm sunny weather. Not sure what state your in, but its cold and cloudy where I am (thus slowing down the process).

Can you put megs #21 on it .. without it messing anything up.. probably. Chances of it causing an issue on a small area like that are slim. If it were my car though, I'd just go with a nice carnuba wax, or keep the car washed regularly and wipe down with a spray wax. Just keep in mind that the dealer may not warranty any repairs if you do decide to seal it before that 3 month mark.

[BlackRam]

Re: New Paint Half Door

I have Megs Carnuaba Paste Wax as well as the Liquid was as well as the spray wax. Would one of them be better to be on in respect of being able to evaporate than the #21? I dont want to wait another 45 days if i do not have to but also want to be "safe"

[Selectchoice]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Unless you've talked to the painter directly and he has said you can wax/seal at this point, be safe and wait the 90 days. A carnauba wax or synthetic 'wax' like M21 will both cause similar issues with fresh paintwork.

[TurboJoe]

Re: New Paint Half Door

A sealant is designed to do exactly what it's name is: seal the paint, creating a pretty strong barrier against the elements, as well as generally lasting longer than most carnauba waxes.
Carnaubas definitely offer protection, but aren't as tough or thick, and will allow the paint to "breathe" a bit. You may still be trapping in the solvents and causing an issue, but this is still a safer route than sealant.
If you don't want to wait while maintaining with the spray wax, either the paste or liquid would be fine. Generally a paste will last a little longer than a liquid, but they will breathe exactly the same.

[BlackRam]

Re: New Paint Half Door

I may be being crazy, but will the door fade a lil if it doesnt have anything on it compared to the rest of the body of the truck? but i want to make sure the paint can breathe fully though, turbojoe - what would u do?

[Daniel Kinder]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Hey BlackRam you might want to read this before you do any thing else.

Mike Phillips


Paint Needs to Breathe

Paint Needs to Breathe

Words mean things, just ask any Lawyer. Floating around on the Internet, and discussed for decades among car enthusiasts is the myth that paint needs to breathe.

Or is it a myth?

It depends on how literal you read into the words. If you apply the common definition used for the word breath, then "No", paint does not need to breathe. If however you take a moment to understand the idea that is being expressed with this word, then I think you'll understand why the word breathe is used when someone says, or posts to the Internet that "Paint needs to breathe".

The below is just my guestimation as to the story behind the theory or myth that paint needs to breathe. I may be wrong, but my years of working with both painters, detailers and serious car enthusiasts as well as teaching detailing classes makes me think that if I'm not dead on, I'm at least in the ball park. With that said, here my explanation of how the saying, "Paint needs to breathe" originated.

For the last 50 or so years, when a person would have their car painted, upon retrieving it from the painter, the painter would typically recommend that the owner wait for a period of time before applying a coat of wax or some type of paint sealant that seals the paint. The normal period of time that most painters recommend is anywhere from 30 to 60 days and sometimes longer, depending upon the painter. The reason for this waiting period is to allow the different solvents and other additives enough time to fully evaporate out of and off of the surface.

Wax and/or paint sealants, whether natural or synthetic, or a blend of both of these ingredients, seals the paint by coating over the surface and filling into any microscopic surface imperfections creating a barrier coating over the surface. This blocks, or inhibits these solvents from escaping through evaporation, oroutgassing. Solvents also called thinners and reducers are used to thin the paint down so that it can be atomized into a spray when applied with a paint gun using compressed air.

When a customer arrives at a body shop or a dealership to pick up their car with its freshly applied paint, most painters will tell the customer to wait a certain number of days before applying wax, or paint sealant over their new paint job. If the customer agrees, then that's probably as far as the discussion goes.

If the customer asks further questions as to why they must wait before applying a protective coating to their investment, then it is my belief that most painters would do their best to explain to the customer, in easy to understand terminology, so that the customer will understand and comply with his request. This is where I think the saying, paint needs to breathe, originated.

I don't think most painters would try to explain that the solvents need to outgas in order for the paint to fully dry and harden, instead, I think they would use a more simple approach and merely tell the customer that their new paint needs to breathe.

The above fictional analogy is probably as accurate as any assumption as to how the theory that paint needs to breath was started. (I'm open to other theories however.)

People that understand the painting process understand that paint doesn't literally need to breathe; they do understand that fresh paint needs to outgas. This means that for a period of time, the solvents and other carrying agents, which are used to dilute paint to a thin viscosity so that it can be sprayed out of a pressurized air sprayer, need to work their way out of the paint through the evaporation process, also referred to as outgassing.

Read the below two scenarios and then decide for yourself, which scenario sounds more plausible.


In an effort to explain to their customers why paint manufactures recommend waiting for at least 30 days to pass before applying a coating of wax or a paint sealant, the painter can,

• 1. Try to explain the outgassing process over and over again throughout their career.
  2. Use a simple analogy that the average person can understand without challenging the painter's judgment or expertise.

My personal guess is the second option.

If the simple analogy works, it will accomplish the painter's goal and allow the painter to get back to work, not spend his time explaining the painting process to each customer as they pick up their car. The goal of course is to prevent the customer from sealing the paint with some type of wax or paint sealant until the paint has completely dried and the out-gassing process is completely over.

• * Paint does not need to breathe in the literal sense that you and I need to breathe as living human beings.
  * Paint does need to breathe in the sense that fresh paint needs to outgas.

Of course, in the last 50 years or so since World War II ended and the car crazy culture really revved up in America, (no pun intended), the result has been explosive growth in the collision repair and custom painting industries. It should be no surprise that the idea that paint needs to breathe has finally reached enough of a critical mass as to be the topic of discussion on numerous discussion forums as well as anywhere a couple of car enthusiasts gather to talk shop.

Depending on how literal you want to read into it, when someone states "Paint needs to breathe", what they probably mean is that fresh paint needs to outgas, they probably just don't know, or understand the term outgas, and/or they are confused like many people who have gone before them and are operating under the wrong idea innocently.

A different, but related version of the above would be someone that applies the same idea that paint needs to breathe to the paint on a brand new car which is also false unless the new car has been painted within the last 30 to 90 days. Sometimes during shipping from the assembly plant to the dealership show room floor, new vehicles are damaged and need repair including repainting. If all the paint on the car is the factory original paint, then it was baked on at the factory as it traveled down the assembly line and was completely cured before it left the assembly plant and it is perfectly safe to apply a coating of wax or a paint sealant of some type. If the car has been repainted due to damage during transit, then the areas with fresh paint should not be sealed with wax until the recommended waiting period has passed.

Well, this is my stab at the "Paint needs to breathe theory".

[TurboJoe]

Re: New Paint Half Door

I may be being crazy, but will the door fade a lil if it doesnt have anything on it compared to the rest of the body of the truck? but i want to make sure the paint can breathe fully though, turbojoe - what would u do?

The paint on your door is new, and should probably look nicer and fresher than the rest of the truck. It would take a while for the area to fade and be noticeably different from the rest of the truck. If this would ever occur, the truck could simply be polished out again to even things out.
I've been a painter for over 10 years now... fresh paint right off the gun will always bead water better than paint that has been polished and waxed. Play it safe and wait the 90 days. Keep the car washed regularly, and while drying wipe down with a spray wax. This will provide you with more than enough protection to get through the next 45 days

[Selectchoice]

Re: New Paint Half Door

The general rule of thumb with fresh paint, is to wait 3 months (or 90 days). Even though paint dries to the touch in a matter of hours, it takes this long for the solvents to fully evaporate out of the clearcoat.........Can you put megs #21 on it .. without it messing anything up.. probably. Chances of it causing an issue on a small area like that are slim. If it were my car though, I'd just go with a nice carnuba wax, or keep the car washed regularly and wipe down with a spray wax. Just keep in mind that the dealer may not warranty any repairs if you do decide to seal it before that 3 month mark.

TurboJoe, how does the size of the area repainted effect the use of a wax/sealant causing problems? Whether it's a full respray of the entire vehicle, or a small area on one panel, fresh paint is fresh paint and should be treated as such. I'd hate to be having to have a 'small area' repainted a few years down the track because of a paint failure that could have been prevented be being patient and waiting a few days before waxing/sealing.

Also keep in mind modern 'spray wax' technology can also cause problems with repainted areas.

IMO, if you care for the car, be patient and wait for the 90 days to pass then give the panel all the love and attention you like.

[TurboJoe]

Re: New Paint Half Door

TurboJoe, how does the size of the area repainted effect the use of a wax/sealant causing problems? Whether it's a full respray of the entire vehicle, or a small area on one panel, fresh paint is fresh paint and should be treated as such. I'd hate to be having to have a 'small area' repainted a few years down the track because of a paint failure that could have been prevented be being patient and waiting a few days before waxing/sealing.

Also keep in mind modern 'spray wax' technology can also cause problems with repainted areas.

IMO, if you care for the car, be patient and wait for the 90 days to pass then give the panel all the love and attention you like.

Fresh paint is fresh paint, yes, I agree with you. However every situation, every bodyshop, materials, the painter, the manner the paint is applied, the dry time, was it baked or not, the environment the car is sitting in... Every paint job and situation is "different".
If you want to be 100% safe, sure, wait the 90 days... however, you've already stated that this is NOT what you want to do. No problem with me.
Trying to keep this as short as possible, and without arguing with anyone... when doing a "small" job like blending in a door/fender, most bodyshops will either perform a bake cycle or else use an infrared lamp to speed up the curing process and move the job along faster. Small jobs usually equate to small dollars, and these drying methods are used to get the car out the door as quickly as possible.
Every shop is different. Some bake small jobs, some bake large jobs, some bake all jobs, some don't do any... We could argue about this all day long. I'm just basing what I said on the fact that it was a "small" job and therefore would probably have a better chance of being a "force" dried panel. Again, every shop is different, so I may be 100% wrong.
Yes spray waxes can cause issues with repainted panels, in some cases just as easily as a sealant or regular carnauba would. I was asked what I would do if it were my car, and I would personally use a spray wax while drying. Offering a little bit of protection, while still allowing the paint to outgas within reason.
I'm offering my own opinions, as is every other user on this forum. Read all of the advice and use your own judgement to make a decision. It's YOUR car, do what YOU want. We're just here to try to help you out along the way by sharing our experiences and thoughts.

[ffboy]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Just M80 Speed Glaze it. It will add shine and some breathable protection for the paint.

[BlackRam]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Wow this alot of good info. Ill wait. Thanks guys!!

[mis3]

Re: New Paint Half Door

One side of my car was painted a few years ago and I waited, painfully, to wax the car. I finally gave up after 60 days. All OK and time did tell.

During the 60 days, I washed often (maybe once a week) and I did apply polish a few times.

For me, the 90 days is just a guideline. There are many variants: local temperature and humidity level, chemical properties of the paint and dilutants, amount of dilutants, what the paint shop did after the paint process, etc, etc...

[ffboy]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Hmm... Well, I gave information regarding this, and as luck would have it, my car was hit, a small but deep collision on the lower portion of the driver's side door on sunday night.. Original plan on Monday was to have it estimated in a reliable shop, I got it back that afternoon... Now, I will have to wait for 30-90 days before I can wax the lower portion of the driver's side door.... Nothing too serious.. No one was hurt, so that's the important thing..

[BlackRam]

Re: New Paint Half Door

Hmm... Well, I gave information regarding this, and as luck would have it, my car was hit, a small but deep collision on the lower portion of the driver's side door on sunday night.. Original plan on Monday was to have it estimated in a reliable shop, I got it back that afternoon... Now, I will have to wait for 30-90 days before I can wax the lower portion of the driver's side door.... Nothing too serious.. No one was hurt, so that's the important thing..

thats crazy man, well good luck