pad/polish ?

[ShinyMopar]

Been thinking about it and not sure what the answer is. You have two pads, compounding and polishing. You also have the compound and polish itself. I know compounding pad with compound is aggressive, polish on polishing pad isn't. But what makes a bigger difference in strength, the pad or polish? Example being a compound pad with polish or a polish pad with compound. Which of those is more aggressive?

[gclark26]

I posted a similar question on 11/5/13. It has good info there.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: pad/polish ?

Example being a compound pad with polish or a polish pad with compound. Which of those is more aggressive?

Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple as there are still huge variables with regard to aggressiveness of both liquids and pads. But if we narrow it down to two specific pads and two specific products we might be able to shed some light.

So, let's look at just Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish, and just the W8207 polishing pad and W9207 finishing pad. Obviously the most aggressive combination is UC on the W8207 and the least aggressive combo is UP on the W9207. So, if we swap them out, which combo is more aggressive - UC/W9207 or UP/W8207? Assuming we maintain identical tool speed, arm speed, pressure, size of work area, etc we would give the nod to UC/W9207. But that's because UC has a heck of a lot more cut than UP does and, more importantly, UP has very little cut in and of itself. But this is a very isolated case, and whether it's an appropriate pad/product combination for a given paint system is something that can only be determined when working on that particular paint.

With all the variables, however, sometimes experimenting pays dividends, especially when faced with a somewhat unusual situation. Take for example that 1939 Bugatti we prepped for SEMA a couple of weeks back. We initially started with a pretty mild pad/product combo by using W8207/M205. Now, M205 has a lot more cut than UP even though the two are related. By pairing it with a polishing pad instead of a finishing pad we increased the total cut from what you might expect by using W9207/M205. But that increase was obviously less than what we get by using a compound with a polishing pad. Obviously. And while this combo took out the swirls from this 30 year old single stage paint, it did not remove the deeper scratches. So, instead of going with a more aggressive compound, we stayed with M205 and moved to a microfiber finishing pad to gain cut. And gain we did, easily pulling out the scratches as well as the swirls. Our reason for going with a more aggressive pad and NOT a more aggressive liquid in this case? The paint was easily hazed and it was, for the most part, correcting quite quickly. We wanted to make just a slight increase in cut but we also wanted to take advantage of the finishing ability of M205. We were already using the W8207 polishing pad and we knew the W7207 cutting pad would be way too aggressive on this fairly delicate paint, and the DMC6 microfiber cutting pad would be similarly aggressive. Without having a liquid on hand that cut somewhere between the heavy hitting trio of M105/M101/M100 and the M205 we were currently using, the DMF6 microfiber finishing disc was the logical choice. Even then, we opted to not run the tool very aggressively. Logic dictates that a lower speed and lighter pressure should reduce hazing, especially on very soft paint, and we were definitely getting some haze. So we tried to balance out the cut and finishing ability of M205 with the same characteristics of the DMC6 microfiber finishing disc and the speed of the tool, downward pressure, etc. By chance we stumbled onto the fact that this paint wasn't quite as logical as you might expect, and we ended up getting less haze by increasing the tool speed and downward pressure. Strange but true!!!

In many cases, trying to compare the total cut of pad/product combo A versus pad/product combo B ends up either as an exercise in frustration or you're just splitting hairs. And even if you can make a definitive determination, how does the paint respond? That's always the big variable. Kevin Brown has told us that he once achieved a truly remarkable finish by using M205 on a W7207 foam cutting pad with a lot of pressure and speed, but he's never been able to replicate this. Don't forget that Kevin is sort of the king of experimenting with oddball pairings - the more you play around with stuff the more you hit on strange combos that work, buy more often than not they either fail miserably or they're just so-so. We always encourage you to experiment, but aside from Kevin's singular experience we would recommend that your experiments not involve extreme combos as the chance for success is limited. UP on a foam cutting pad, for example, is bound to result in much less than fantastic results although it should be noted that M105 can often finish extremely well on a W9207 foam finishing pad. It won't cut all that great with that pad, but it can finish quite nicely. We would suspect that a heavy cutting compound that uses diminishing abrasives (instead of the SMAT abrasives in M105) wouldn't finish anywhere near as well.

At the end of it all, when we're correcting paint defects the end goal really is two fold - to remove all the defects (or to a level that is safe for the paint) and achieve as clear and brilliant a finish as possible. It's this balance that should be front of mind when trying to figure out the best pad/product combo for a given project. The Bugatti project called for the process described above, but we've also seen cases that were the polar opposite - where a combo as aggressive as M100 on microfiber pads not only removed all the defects from pretty hard paint, but left an almost shockingly clear finish. It was the correct combo for that particular paint system.

[ShinyMopar]

Thank you for the awesome answer. I've always been a black/white kind of guy. I was the kid in school who could answer dates and facts in history but couldn't analyze a poem for literature. This one one of my curiosities. As I am just getting my feet wet with a DA I'm trying to soak up info like a sponge. My grandpa always said if you are going to learn something you just need to do it. So hard for me, as I watch. Watch again. Read instructions. Look up info on web. Check make sure I have everything, then once I'm sure I can do it I begin.

[jankerson]

Re: pad/polish ?

It's all about the test spot to see what combination will work the best...

It could be M105 and a Yellow Polishing pad.. Usually a good combination to try 1st.

Or M105 on a MF Cutting Disc.

Or even M205 on a MF Cutting Disc..

Or even something completely different like D151 or M83 on a Yellow Polishing Pad.

Try to use the least aggressive pad product combo to get the job done with the best results and that would be the clearest finish realistically possible in a reasonable amount of time.

After the correction step the finish should look like it's already wax ready with the proper pad/product combo. (That is the key IMO)

Then Move to the Polishing step after that to really enhance the finish before putting on the wax or sealant.

But it all starts out with the test spot and getting that 1st step right and build on that.

[Detailing by M]

Re: pad/polish ?

If you want to keep it simple get the DAMF System. With this you'll do amazing things on just about anything you come across.