M105/m205 Useless?

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

This is truly bizarre. We've never seen this sort of struggle, especially when competing products take care of the situation with no issue. In fact, more often than not we hear tell us that the ONLY thing that would fix the problem is M105. Again, this is one of the most popular products out there for this exact type of work.

That's exactly why I am so confused.

Ideally, I would like to be able to use this stuff. It's not even cleaning up at all after my 3m compound. It's as if it does nothing.

Would you suggest it with the DA/Microfiber pad? I've been thinking about picking up a MF for quite some time.

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

^ The 3m compounds work for removing the wet sand marks, but don't finish very well. It takes some serious work with a final polish to get them to have the clarity I like.

Perhaps the paint is too soft for m105 and it is marring the finish? Is that a possibility? Keep in mind how fresh this clear is.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

That's exactly why I am so confused.

Ideally, I would like to be able to use this stuff. It's not even cleaning up at all after my 3m compound. It's as if it does nothing.

That's just so bizarre because anything that the 3M compound would leave behind should be easily cleaned up with a finishing polish like M205, let alone being blasted into oblivion by M105.

Would you suggest it with the DA/Microfiber pad? I've been thinking about picking up a MF for quite some time.

You really don't want to use microfiber pads on a rotary as they will horribly haze the paint.

^ The 3m compounds work for removing the wet sand marks, but don't finish very well. It takes some serious work with a final polish to get them to have the clarity I like.

This makes it sound like the paint is pretty darn hard, but even so, M105 should easily be a match for anything 3M makes (we should know, we're owned by 3M even though we actually compete against our parent company in the body shop world).

Perhaps the paint is too soft for m105 and it is marring the finish? Is that a possibility? Keep in mind how fresh this clear is.

It doesn't look like that's the issue here as your last image appears to have straight line sanding marks in it, and you're certainly not going to leave straight line marring with M105 or anything else for that matter. But fresh or not isn't the issue here - M105 was originally developed specifically for body shop use on fresh paint.

The fact that you're making near zero progress with it still bugs the heck out of us, though. Have you tried using a foam cutting pad instead of wool? I personally have worked on some cars that don't like wool at all, and even with aggressive compounds, and even aggressive settings on the rotary itself, the paint just didn't want to correct. Moving to a foam cutting pad and M105 made an enormous difference - instant defect removal, great clarity. We've even seen this in our training classes depending on what paint was used on demo panels. Some paints just prefer one pad over the other for whatever reason.

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

Maybe it just doesn't agree with the wool. I've tried an orange pad on the DA, but not a foam on the rotary. Would the soft buff 2.0 suffice? That's all my local paint shop has and I really don't want to have to wait for a different pad to come in for my rotary.

[davey g-force]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

How about removing the sanding marks with your 3M compounds, then finishing with M205? Or have you already tried that?

I don't think M105 is marring the finish. From your photo, it looks like sanding marks are still there.

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

I got all the sanding marks out with the 3m compound. m205 wont even remove the compound haze. It does NOTHING. I'll try a foam pad tomorrow.

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

I purchased a soft buff cutting pad. If this doesn't work from here, do you guys stand behind your product with a satisfaction guarentee?

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

Finally got a little bit of bite... I had to use the rotary+soft buff cutting pad with lots of pressure and on full speed... Not too happy with this idea. Rotary+high speed+high pressure+fresh paint feels like a disaster waiting to happen.

Then this happened on my second panel. Never had this happen before?



Is it safe to continue using this pad? I normally wouldn't, but I need this project done and my shop is out of them. That and I refuse to spend any more money trying to make the aready pricey products that I have work...

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

^ I decided against using that for the obvious reasons. I drove out to another shop and picked up some other pads.

All I can say is, m105 is absolute rubbish. I have experience with detailing cars and can back it up with pictures to prove it. I had to use dangerously high speeds and now have funky rotary holograms all over. I'm praying that these are just holograms and not actual burn spots. On top of that, even where there are these issues, minor 2000 scratches are still there. There is absolutely zero chance of 2000 scratches being in the base coat due to the thickness of the clear, so rule that one out before anyone even says it.

I am officially done with meguiars products unless Michael can shed some more light on this. I've gone over the car three times with m105 with no result. The 3m compound took out 90% of the sand scratches (I don't like to go too heavy with this) and the m105 wouldn't even remove the marring of the 3m.

If anyone wants m105 and m205, let me know. Otherwise they are going in the trash.

[jarred767]

You can mail them to me, I've never had anything but great results with this combo and would be willing to take them off your hands for you I'm sorry to hear that they didn't work for you.

I'll PM you to work out the details

[chevy]

This is indeed strange. But bashing M105 and calling it rubbish is quite childish.
Ive sanded and buffed out Corvettes with rock hard clears. Oh and black paint. Sanded and buffed out a black Yukon Denali. Mercedez with Ceramiclear and literally hundreds of other cars. Point is its not the product bud. I hope you find the perfect solution to your problem. You obviously have alot of time invested. Good luck

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

^ I decided against using that for the obvious reasons. I drove out to another shop and picked up some other pads.

All I can say is, m105 is absolute rubbish. I have experience with detailing cars and can back it up with pictures to prove it. I had to use dangerously high speeds and now have funky rotary holograms all over. I'm praying that these are just holograms and not actual burn spots. On top of that, even where there are these issues, minor 2000 scratches are still there. There is absolutely zero chance of 2000 scratches being in the base coat due to the thickness of the clear, so rule that one out before anyone even says it.

I am officially done with meguiars products unless Michael can shed some more light on this. I've gone over the car three times with m105 with no result. The 3m compound took out 90% of the sand scratches (I don't like to go too heavy with this) and the m105 wouldn't even remove the marring of the 3m.

If anyone wants m105 and m205, let me know. Otherwise they are going in the trash.

First off, these products are not rubbish - there's just way too many huge success stories out there for that to be the case. Are they maybe not the right product for this particular paint? That's entirely possible, although admittedly very strange.

You're struggling to remove the swirls/defects that the 3M compound is creating, which tells us the paint here is very hard indeed. By the way, if the 3M is only taking out 90% of the sand scratches (your estimation, not ours) is that normal in your experience, or is that also an indicator to you that the paint is extremely hard? And why move to M105 as a second step if you're not done with the first? Just sort of thinking out loud here.

Look, we really understand your frustration here and we wish we were close enough to you to come by and check this out in person. This is just so totally bizarre and completely out of character for M105.

Is this the same paint you've always used in the past? Would you say this paint is taking longer to buff out with the 3M compound than you're used to?
As to the shredded cutting pad you showed, looking at the chunk taken out and the cutting that leads away from the cut at top center, it looks like it got caught on an edge somewhere.

[davey g-force]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

All I can say is, m105 is absolute rubbish.

That's a bit rough! M105 is one of the most popular compounds out there, and I've seen countless success stories with it.

A more suitable comment would be "M105 is not suitable for my particular paint / stuation for whatever reason".

[2004gts]

Re: M105/m205 Useless?

The pad probably did get caught. It must have gotten a small tear on a door handle spot then just gave out in the middle of the door panel. Kind of strange though, I've never had a pad just blow apart like it did.

I'm sorry if it comes off as childish. I'm just frustrated with this right now because after all the time I spent with it, there was absolutely no difference. There are so many success stories of m105 and positive reviews that it's quite bizarre. I referred to it as rubbish in an individual sense. I'm fairly certain that it must be a bad bottle or something. The product literally feels as if it has no abrasives in it when in your hand. The m205 feels like just a watered down version of it.

I usually shoot dupont clear. I opted out of it this time because I was looking for something that had a longer out of dust window to allow it to flow better, meaning less orange peel.

I only take out about 90% of the scratches with the 3m because I don't like to take that stuff near any edges with the wool pad. That stuff bites hard. Areas near the edges are only sanded with 2000 just to keep a consistent finish on the whole car. I then get those by hand.

On a positive note, I'm most of the way done. I just waiting for a few finishing products to arrive. Going to give chemical guys a try now instead of menzerna.

[chevy]

Ive worked on paint before where I literally had to finish via rotary. The paint did not respond well to the da polisher. My point is often times there are many variables when refining a paint finish. We as professional detailers have ran into situations that absolutely make you wanna pull your hair out. Maybe your situation would require a longer working time, slower passes, more or less downward pressure, lower or higher rpms. Or maybe a second or third pass. Wipe clean inspect and go again. Whatever the problem is I hope you can get it resolved and. Achieve the results you are looking for
Lastly. Not to pile on but this forum is full of great people. Great advice and years of experience. Great customer service and a company that is absolute 1st class. The ranting isnt going to gain you much sympathy. If you think Meguiars products arent up to par with your demands then don't purchase them. But if youll seek answers rather than point blame I believe you will be much better served. Again. Good luck. And take a deep breath