Need Help With A Mark On Leather

[Aenygma]

Hi,

I have come across a spot on the side of a leather seat that I cannot get out at all.
I am not sure what caused the spot; best guess is we think a long vase (metal or plastic) that was placed between the seats.

The seats had not been treated yet with any leather conditioner before this happened. I found it as I was doing the conditioning with Lexol Leather Conditioner.
I have tried, Megs leather cleaner, Megs interior detailer, Hand sanitizer, straight alcohol. Nothing has even taken the tiniest amount off.
After all attempts I went back over the area with leather cleaner/conditioner, and then applied and rubbed in with my finger Lexol conditioner.

To be honest it does not look as bad in real life as it does in the picture. The picture enhances it a bit, still we want it gone.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[LoveBlackPaint]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Try using a steamer if you have one, what it does is open up the pores so that it allow the leather cleaner to penetrate.
Dont forget to condition them afterwards to close the pores back up.
Works like a charm.

I once used a Magic Eraser, that too worked.

Kevin

Note. Just a little heat, don't over do it

[Blueline]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Lead pencil eraser

[Blueline]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Pores in finished leather? Don't think so.

[Aenygma]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

In doing an online search I too came across a pencil eraser as you pointed out Blueline. I still have not tried to take it out yet, here to bounce another idea I read online off the hive mind... Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. What does anyone think of that as well?
I believe Magic Eraser is crumbled up bits of melamine, so not too sure about where it stands abrasive wise. I want to use the least abrasive product.
Still can't believe I have not gotten it off, or even how it got there. It is a mystery to us. Odd.

[Blueline]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

You might try a good liquid vinyl cleaner. Read the directions carefully. Remember, your leather seat has a coat of vinyl (or something very similar) on it. It will not absorb anything and no, it does not have "pores", that open up with steam. Have not tried Magic Eraser on my seats, but it should work. That said, it is fairly abrasive, and probably will make a buffed looking mark if you are too aggressive.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Be very careful when using either a pencil eraser or the Magic Eraser as both can be pretty aggressive and rub through the protective coating. A moisturizer/conditioner alone isn't going to remove these as they don't really contain any cleaners in them. When you mentioned having used our leather cleaner, was it the dedicated Gold Class Leather & Vinyl Cleaner, or was it one of the Leather Cleaner/Conditioners? The all-in-one are nowhere near as effective as our dedicated cleaner, but if this staining has gotten really deep into the pores of the coating (and yes, the coating is actually porous to some extend regardless what Blueline would have you believe) then you could have your work cut out for you. Even with a proper cleaner you don't want to continually scrub with any sort of towel in a smallish area because, again, you can rub right through the coating. Steam cleaning can do wonders for this, but not everyone has access to a steam cleaner.

[Blueline]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

(and yes, the coating is actually porous to some extend regardless what Blueline would have you believe)

Please show me one site which says vinyl is porous, and I will eat my finished leather seats.I have read many articles on leather finishing both for the horse industry and finished leather for home and auto. I know a bit about leather, and my opinion is unbiased. Here is a quote from a site:
Vinyl is a manmade material, made from a mixture of polyvinyl chloride and plasticizer. It is usually flexible and non-porous.

[BillE]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

You can try an "art gum eraser."

Bill

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

It is usually flexible and non-porous.

Usually?


Vinyl, or in the grander scheme of things, plastic, can be just about as hard as nails or incredibly soft. As a man made material it can be altered and formulated in as many different configurations as you can possibly imagine. Anything from PVC pipe, to thermoset resins (think distributor caps, composite intake manifolds, etc) to soft and pliable vinyl shoes and clothing. Many clear vinyl paint protection films (ie, clear bras) have tiny pores actually engineered into them to help release trapped moisture that could otherwise damage the paint the film is trying to protect. Manufacturers of these plastic films will void the warranty if you apply a heavy silicone laden product than can clog these pores and prevent this release of moisture. Now, these are man made pores and not naturally occurring pores as you might think of them on your skin, but they're there and incredibly tiny, allowing a two way passage of air and moisture. These are pores that are engineered into the plastic film, but so small you can't see them.

But back to the coatings on automotive leather. First off, not all of these coatings are identical, but they are all pretty highly engineered to look, stretch and feel like leather. They are put there, quite simply, to protect the leather. Much in the same way the clear coat in a base coat/clear coat paint system is applied to protect the color coat beneath it. But that doesn't mean the clear coat is impervious to damage, or can't dry out, or is completely non porous. You might be thinking "well, yeah, but that's paint, not plastic". But according to the loose, all encompassing definition of "plastic", both a modern clear coat of paint and the coating on your leather seats is "plastic". So is a PVC plumbing pipe, so is the vinyl dash in your car, so is the carpet in your car and so are the bottles that contain the various cleaners and conditioners we're talking about. And in some cases those bottles themselves will allow oxygen to penetrate them and degrade the products contained therein. But we don't think of those bottles as being "porous", do we? They're plastic after all, and they don't leak when we fill them with liquids. But they are, in fact, porous.

Let's look at what's really happening with the various coatings used on automotive leather and the products you select to clean and or treat them. Again, different car companies use different suppliers for their interior bits and pieces, and the coatings vary accordingly. Honda has a reputation for using a very thin coating on their leather seats, and we often see these degrading much faster than other manufacturers coatings do. That degradation comes with time and abrasion - abrasion from simply getting in and out of the car, abrasion from dirt that becomes embedded in the coating (call it "texture" if "pore" is offensive to you). It's these fine particles of dirt being rubbed back and forth by the person sitting in the seat that wears out this delicate coating. Application of a leather cleaner/conditioner will help to remove this dirt and prevent the build up of same, and it will actually add a small bit of lubricity so that the act of sliding in and out of the car doesn't impact the coating as much. Of course the real trick is to formulate a product that can add this bit of slip without being slippery. Or greasy. Or overly glossy.

Over time, however, there is going to be some drying out of this coating, just as your clear coat can dry out over time if neglected. If you don't believe that paint can "dry out" then you've never buffed on a car with a badly dried out clear coat and had it just pull all the lubricants out of your compound and caused it to gum up on the surface. And the only way that can happen is because the clear coat has become porous and is providing a place for the lubricants or oils in the compound to go. This is why we can actually get paint thickness readings that are greater (ie the paint is thicker) immediately following an aggressive buffing process (and without getting the paint really hot) than we measured before buffing. The paint is actually swelling as it absorbs the solvents in the compound, and contracts as the solvents volatilize out. If paint, which in the case of a modern clear coat means a plastic, isn't porous, then how does it do this? Just as paint behaves in this way, so too do the various coatings used to protect leather. And as the coating dries out and begins to develop micro cracking, it effectively becomes even more porous and accepting of conditioners (moisturizers, really) to the point where something like Leatherique can actually make old, hard surfaces feel soft and supple again. And if this coating is absorbing nothing at all, Leatherique simply can not work. And it actually works beautifully, both on uncoated and coated leather.

Now, there have been comments made on various forums that the coating on leather, being essentially plastic (or vinyl if you prefer), should be treated just like you would treat plastic (vinyl). Well, yes and no. It certainly isn't anywhere near as porous as leather is, that's for darn sure. It may be essentially plastic, but as noted above it's a highly engineered plastic, it's quite thin, and actually quite delicate. Many plastic and vinyl cleaners or dressings may contain certain emulsifiers or surfactants that could compromise this delicate coating, which is why we've always said that we're fine with you using our leather care products on the vinyl care surfaces of your car but not the other way around.

Blueline, you and I have gone round and round with this in the past, and our discussion from almost exactly a year ago still stands. I'll remind you once more to review the forum rules.

[C8N]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

^wow.. that was a great read. Thank you Mr Stoops for the informative post.

[Aenygma]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Wow, lot of information there, thanks Michael.
What would you suggest for me to use on this? What about Bill

[BillE]

Re: Need Help With A Mark On Leather

Thank you Michael...great info (as usual).

Bill