Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

[EMguru]

Hey guys, I'm not a detailer, so forgive me if my terminology isn't 100% correct. I found this forum while doing research trying to figure out what the markings on my truck (Ford F-150) are. I just bought the truck, and the dealership repaired some dings on the driver's side door for me. When I got it back from the body shop, after looking at it in the sunlight, I noticed many holographic-like swirls. After spending some time scouring this forum, I think I figured out that the markings are rotary buffer swirls, caused by improper use of a high-speed rotory buffer, and that body shops are notorious for this. I'd really like confirmation on this. I'd also like to know how long it might take an experienced detailer to correct it? Lastly, I'd like to confirm that this is in fact a detailer correction job, not a body shop correction job. I sent pictures to the dealership, and I'll talk to them again today to see what they have to say. I'd like to be armed with some knowledge so that I know what they tell me is legit, as far is how long it takes to correct. I don't want to give it back to the body shop and have them eat up more clear coat. They already proved they don't know what they're doing.
Thanks in advance!!

p.s. can't figure out how to attach a pic.

[GoZoner]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...-your-messages <== Add an image

[Murr1525]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

Pics will help most, but a decent detailer should be able to fix, or greatly improve it. And wouldnt take too long for just one door. A couple hours if fixing the door, then waxing everything.

Having someone who had a paint thickness gauge would also help.

[EMguru]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

Thanks GoZoner. I'm at work and unfortunately can't host images on the internet.

[EMguru]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

Thanks for the info Murr1525. That's what I figured. So if the dealership comes back and tells me they want it back in the bodyshop rather than a detailer, I know they're full of it. I wish I could post pics. I'm confident now they are rotory buffer swirls. Would a decent detailer always finish with a DA buffer?

[Murr1525]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

For a dealer, the body shop might include the detailer.... Some hire an outside detailer, some dont.

Well, there are a lot of variables to what process a detailer might use.

A good detailer wouldn't get bad holograms in the first place. But a rotary can leave some marring behind even when used properly.

And it sort of depends what you pay for. If you paid for a quick job, they might pick one machine to do one step on the car. And if they use a rotary to fix something quickly, shiny might be the most you get. Or it could come out pretty good.

If you pay for a show car job, you could be looking at multiple steps with a DA, or rotary then DA, or anything else.

[EMguru]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

That makes sense.

Any idea what a fair price (ball park) would be if I went to a detailer and just told them to remove the swirls from the door? Is that a sufficient request?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

First off, welcome to MOL!


As for the marks you're seeing in the paint, if they appear to float as you change your viewing angle or otherwise appear to be holographic in nature, then they are most definitely caused by rushed use of a rotary buffer. This is very common in body shops since a body shop's job is to repair the damage, apply new paint, and generally make it "shiny" so that it's acceptable to the owner. In the vast majority of cases they're being paid by an insurance company and the insurance company won't pay for the extra time it takes to actually detail a vehicle. If a dealership is paying to repair a damaged area on a trade in vehicle, they're going to keep their wallet shut as tight as possible, too.

These rotary swirls are usually fairly easy to correct by any good detailer, but the process could take from 3 to 10 hours or more depending on the overall condition, and the end result you want for the entire vehicle. If the swirls are isolated to one panel then it could be corrected in under an hour. A lot of variables come into play here, but this NOT generally something you want fixed by the same body shop that caused it in the first place. Polishing paint from a "detailer's" perspective is very different than polishing paint from a body shop perspective. And a body shop could well just load the paint up with glaze to conceal the swirls, and the car would look great when you picked it up. But after a couple months of regular washing, all of that glaze will go away and the swirls will be revealed once more. Proper polishing, either with a rotary or most likely a DA, will actually remove the rotary swirls and not just fill or cover them. But this is a much more refined process, and often more time consuming, than what most body shops are used to doing. That's not to say that all body shops are incapable of creating a near flawless finish, just that most of them rarely do. So just as you probably wouldn't trust a detailer to paint your car, you probably shouldn't trust a body shop to detail your car. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but for the most part it's just two very different mind sets.

[Murr1525]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

It may not be worth it to a mobile detailer.. but a shop shouldnt care what you ask for.

Someone decent is probably $50 an hour.... Depending on cleaning, or any sanding or something, a door shouldnt be more than 2 hours I would think. Less with no waxing really...

[EMguru]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

Thanks a lot for the info guys...really appreciate it.

Michael, yes that's exactly what they are. Funny that they're called exactly how one would describe them...i.e. a swirl or hologram. They are limited only to the driver's side door. I think I may forgo the dealership correcting it and go straight to a detailer.

[the other pc]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

from the thread: DISO = The Dealership Installed Swirl Option

[EMguru]

Re: Rotary buffer swirl diagnosis confirmation

Well, a buddy of mine removed the DISO from the door, using a Porter Cable DA polisher and some ultimate compound. However, we uncovered an even bigger issue. The clear coat is peeling off a small section of the door frame. We can see where the dealer taped the door (they apparently only painted the bottom half of the door), and the clear coat is peeling where the tape mark is. The base paint is very smooth, which I assume means they didn't sand well enough for the clear coat to adhere. In addition, there are finger prints in the paint. Now I have to deal with them again. Very frustrating.

So now I have a new question: Should the entire door be sanded and repainted, so as to have a continuous clear coat? Should the dealer have done that to begin with? Or can you still get a quality paint job by only addressing the part of the door where the paint is peeling?

Thanks!