Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound? And Some Other Things...

[AJ1976]

Hey guys,

I have a recently acquired black BMW e46 project car with the first order of business being paint correction. Many, many swirls, holograms, and scratches ranging from fine to all the way through the clear coat, bug gut stains, water spots, etc.

I purchased 5 products based on initial research; and, the condition, as well as the color, of the car's paint:
1.) Ultimate Compound
2.) Ultra Finishing Polish
3.) 7 Mirror Glaze Professional Show Car Glaze
4.) Ultimate paste wax
5.) D/A Polisher


Right. So I started with the Ultimate Compound and actually ended up using the whole bottle to get the really stubborn stuff out. I'm not sure what Meguiar's puts in this stuff but where I come from we call it "magic." The results were phenomenal -- I actually have to hold a bright halogen work light up tho the vehicle now to see any blemishes at all. Further, the paint had a depth and gloss to it that I have never seen on a 13 year old car. Just really nice.

So...

I could not, at that point, see any sense in using the Ultra Finishing Polish since, as I understand it, that product is to develop depth and get out fine scratches (of which, there were virtually none after using the U.C.). So I skipped right to the #7 Glaze.... didn't see a bit of difference in the clarity or the gloss or the depth of the paint after doing so.

And so I waxed!

The ultimate paste wax did indeed add a layer of reflectivity that the Ultimate Compound did not, I'm guessing cannot, provide. Obviously added protection as well.


So, my questions are these:
1.) Had I actually used the Ultra Finishing Polish, would there be any difference in the result? If so, what? Should I go back and polish?
2.) I'm guessing the Ultimate Compound is sort of a glaze that cuts, which might explain why the 7 Mirror Glaze Professional Show Car Glaze didn't make a bit of difference. Does that sound about right? If not, why do you think it made no difference?
3.) While I'm happy with the Ultimate Pate Wax, I'm wondering if there might not be a superior alternative given that the car is black. A carnauba or carnauba blend, maybe?

While we're at it, if anyone could share (or direct me to) their "I too have a black car and here's what I use" thread/post, I'd be very appreciate.

Thanks a lot guys,
AJ

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound? And Some Other Thing

AJ, welcome to MOL! It sounds like you did an outstanding job on this 13 year old BMW, so congrats!

What any of us "needs to do" is totally dependent on what we want out of the finish. Ultimate Compound, though "just a consumer product" is actually derived from our M105 Ultra Cut Compound in our Mirror Glaze pro line, which is a very highly regarded product among enthusiast detailers, elite detailers, and body shops alike. UC won't give quite as much cutting ability, but it also gives you a longer buffing cycle (ie, working time without drying out) than M105 so in many cases it may well be the better choice. Your situation appears to have been one of those cases. The really big variable in all this, which often gets totally overlooked by people new to the hobby, is how the paint itself responds to input. You titled this thread "Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound?" and the real answer, albeit a short one, is "Sometimes". If UC leaves the paint looking, to you, like it's ready to wax, then it's ready to wax. If it leaves some light hazing, then a finishing polish is in order. On paint much newer than yours, especially metallics, M205 Ultra Finishing Polish can do wonders to further enhance the gloss and clarity and really make the metallic pop. If your paint is non metallic black, it may not make such a huge difference. But M205 (or Ultimate Polish, which is derived from it) is a bit different than M07 Show Car Glaze. M07 contains zero abrasives; it's what we call a "pure polish" meaning it is simply a gloss enhancer, nothing more.

As for your additional questions:

1.) Had I actually used the Ultra Finishing Polish, would there be any difference in the result? If so, what? Should I go back and polish?
Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the paint itself, as noted above, how critical your eye is (how well trained your eye is, to put it another way) and how you used the product. We would expect to see some increase in gloss and clarity with M205 though.
2.) I'm guessing the Ultimate Compound is sort of a glaze that cuts, which might explain why the 7 Mirror Glaze Professional Show Car Glaze didn't make a bit of difference. Does that sound about right? If not, why do you think it made no difference?
Ultimate Compound is just that - a compound. It is not a glaze at all, but rather a fairly potent abrasive compound, which gives it the ability to quite literally level the paint and remove below surface defects like swirls, fine scratches, oxidation, etchings, etc. But the abrasives in it are pretty high tech buggers; they are incredibly fine, super hard, and very uniform in size and shape (our SMAT or Super Micro Abrasive Technology, to be precise). This means the abrasives cut very quickly without scouring the paint like some old school "rocks in a bottle" compounds will. That said, on really delicate paint some haze can be created with UC, in which case a follow up finishing polish becomes mandatory. From your description, your paint most definitely does NOT fall into this category. Consider yourself lucky!!!
3.) While I'm happy with the Ultimate Pate Wax, I'm wondering if there might not be a superior alternative given that the car is black. A carnauba or carnauba blend, maybe?
Ultimate Paste is pretty terrific stuff, and hugely popular around here. But a lot of people will tell you that a carnauba wax looks better on black than synthetics, like Ultimate Wax, so. That's a purely subjective thing though, just like some people prefer prime rib over ribeye, or white meat over dark meat from their Thanksgiving turkey.

Not too long ago we had the opportunity to correct a badly neglected 2008 3 Series in non metallic black (see write up here) and after trying a few different processes on it the one that finally worked to remove all the defects also left the paint looking fantastic in a single step. The paint on this car was insanely hard, which is why it became the subject of the write up, but the way it responded to different input plays right into your main question here about the need to polish after compounding. Some of the processes used early on the testing phase would have required additional steps, but ultimately it wasn't really needed based on the customer's expectations. Oh, and this car was finished off with Gold Class Carnauba Plus as the wax, no other wax/sealant applied before it.

[Murr1525]

Re: Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound? And Some Other Thing

So, my questions are these:
1.) Had I actually used the Ultra Finishing Polish, would there be any difference in the result? If so, what? Should I go back and polish?

Some of it comes down to personal preference. One person may say they can see a difference, while another says they cant. All that matters is if you like it.

You would not be using the UC every time in the future... #205 would become your mild cleaner/polish, so you would be using it then either way.

Or just re-do one panel now, maybe a fender, or door now, and then stand back for a few days and compare.

2.) I'm guessing the Ultimate Compound is sort of a glaze that cuts, which might explain why the 7 Mirror Glaze Professional Show Car Glaze didn't make a bit of difference. Does that sound about right? If not, why do you think it made no difference?

To put it in Meguiars terms:
UC - strong cleaner
#205 - mild cleaner/polish
#7 - pure polish (meaning only oils)

That said, I think anything will leave a little bit of oils behind.

As noted above, just could be personal preference as well.

Also, the polishing oils will have a bigger impact on older and single stage paints, as compared to newer or clear coated paints.

3.) While I'm happy with the Ultimate Pate Wax, I'm wondering if there might not be a superior alternative given that the car is black. A carnauba or carnauba blend, maybe?

The Ult. Wax is pretty good... but something like Gold Class+ could be tried. Or even just the Gold Class Spray wax for after future washes.

[AJ1976]

Re: Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound? And Some Other Thing

Hey thanks, guys. I appreciate the time and detail you've provided.

[...] 2.) I'm guessing the Ultimate Compound is sort of a glaze that cuts, which might explain why the 7 Mirror Glaze Professional Show Car Glaze didn't make a bit of difference. Does that sound about right? If not, why do you think it made no difference?
Ultimate Compound is just that - a compound. It is not a glaze at all, but rather a fairly potent abrasive compound, which gives it the ability to quite literally level the paint and remove below surface defects like swirls, fine scratches, oxidation, etchings, etc. But the abrasives in it are pretty high tech buggers; they are incredibly fine, super hard, and very uniform in size and shape (our SMAT or Super Micro Abrasive Technology, to be precise). This means the abrasives cut very quickly without scouring the paint like some old school "rocks in a bottle" compounds will. That said, on really delicate paint some haze can be created with UC, in which case a follow up finishing polish becomes mandatory. From your description, your paint most definitely does NOT fall into this category. Consider yourself lucky!!!

I do! It took me the whole bottle of U.C., 8 hours and the rotator cuff in my right arm just to get all of the defects out that could have been gotten out short of sanding, lol.

So then I'm guessing that the lustre that appeared after using the U.C. was just the original finish revealed?

Also, what are your thoughts on why the show car glaze made no difference?

I really did try to eliminate my own subjectivity during the process. I.e. I went section by section (of course) with the glaze, looked at each section under a variety of lighting scenarios as I progressed, etc. It really just didn't do anything.


You know, I'm sort of kicking myself that I didn't document the process... It truly does look as if the car has had a new paint job. Many have even asked whether or not it has. Also, now that I think about it the finish did look somewhat 'milky' under a halogen light after the U.C.. I assumed that was just an artifact of the light spectrum being shone on it, though; but, it sounds like I was getting a "hey, you, polish me" signal from the paint.

[...]just re-do one panel now, maybe a fender, or door now, and then stand back for a few days and compare.

Great idea! We'll do the hood and see what happens.

[Murr1525]

Re: Is Polishing Really Necessary After Using Ultimate Compound? And Some Other Thing

Well... as long as it wasnt clear/coat failure milky... You may want to do a search for the Clear Coat Failure Archive. just to be safe.

And as far as the surface being 'revelaed'... the UC actually removed the top molecules of paint to level out the surface, and remove dead paint, etc.