Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

[Zodiac1]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Thanks Davey

Hi Ghost and thanks for the above links , unfortunately its not possible to identify type of paint by pictures ...you would need to see perform a solvent test. There was a time when it was hard to pass off a 2k finish as cellulose there are some painters that can do it via flatting and polishing. Tho to achieve this the prep for such a finish starts at the bare metal stage and costs a lot of money as its very labour intensive.

I had the perfect opportunity today to test for water spotting with the Dodo juice Blue velvet today, as i've just come back from a 315 mile round trip at a car show in which there was lots of rain and lots of sun.

There was evidence of water spotting and mineral deposits in the areas where the water had beaded , very small spots.....However they were wiped off extremely easily with only a clean micrfibre with no etching into the paint at all. I think its fair to say that no wax can eliminate mineral/water spot residue but as i have seen today the Blue velvet stopped them eating into the surface, as was my original thought in this thread

It makes for interesting reading if you take for example just one of the components of tech wax paste, for example

Isoparaffinic Hydrocarbon , CAS 64742-48-9

Then get the lowdown on it here http://www.chemicalbook.com/Chemical..._CB6505512.htm

Look at the synonyms then do a search on them and there properties.

Heres an interesting on on Heavy Naptha ...an ingredient that show on the data sheet for tech wax liquid.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=effects+of+naptha+on+cellulose+paint+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qut&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=naphtha+paint+thinner&oq=+naptha+in+paint&gs_l=serp.1.0.0i22i10.13463.24878.0.28276.36.25.0.1.1.8.196.2664.14j11.25.0...0.0...1c.5TARuzFnpC8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=ef02e57bb752642e&biw=1024&bih=704

Please bear in mind that cellulose is no way near as durable as 2k.

[davey g-force]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Those before / after engine bay shots are amazing!

[GhOsT1321]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

This is a very interesting thread indeed.
Zodiac, your comments on distillates and paint softening are very interesting.
I too am curious if the wax is to blame here. Even if the wax is not entirely at fault, maybe he got a bad batch.
IIRC, Mike Phillips has posted a few pics of older, similar styled paint jobs, all most which were protected with Meguiar's waxes, and especially NXT. Mike is a pretty perceptive guy, I figure he would have noticed an issue such as the issue that you mentioned.
Here is a link to his photo gallery. I'm not sure if you can tell a paint job by looking at a picture, but I figured it's worth a shot.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/showgallery.php/ppuser/2/username/mike-phillips

Edit: I forgot to post these.
Here are the MDSD for NXT 2.0 sealant; first liquid, then paste.

http://www.meguiars.com/content/en/msds/G127.PDF

http://www.meguiars.com/content/en/msds/G12711.PDF

[link626]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Everyone wants a wax that beads water like crazy, but in some cases - like acid rain - extreme beading can lead to problems because it causes concentrated beads of water to sit on the paint for long periods of time. Even if it's only extremely hard water (ie, a very high mineral content) problems can arise from letting it sit on the paint, regardless what wax or sealant is there to "protect" the paint.

this is what i hate about waxes and sealants.

damned if you use em, damned if you don't.

if you have just a little dust on your car, and it only rains for a few minutes, your car gets covered in polka dots because of the water beading.

[Zodiac1]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Great finish Zodiac, and comments above. Now go and buy a paint depth gauge :-).

Lol Cheers Rappy

[rapport25]

Great finish Zodiac, and comments above. Now go and buy a paint depth gauge :-).

[Zodiac1]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Hi and Thanks , The reason for your water spotting would have been due to the solvents in the fresh paint still evaporating. While solvents from fresh paint are doing this it leaves the surface soft. During this period its vital that no sealants/heavy waxes are used as this can lead to solvent popping on the surface etc.

If your car is the one in your avatar then its finish is basecoat and 2kclear. Which once hardened/fully cured will be a LOT more resilient to heavy aggressive solvents found in some waxes and sealants than a cellulose finish.

A cellulose repaint such as mine does not cure chemically like 2k and is always an unstable finish and as such you have to be very careful to use a more natural kind of wax with no harsh solvents which in my opinion will further exacerbate the natural instability of the paint.

I would be quite happy to use nxt2 on a modern 2k chemically cured finish.

[ffboy]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Nicely done! But honestly, I never had those kinds of water spots after using NXT 2.0... I came close some time ago when I had my car's hood refinished, then buffed 2 days later then fortunately, it rained at night. I had those same water spots, but when the sun came out it disappeared. In my case, it was due to the absence of any form of protection which I wasn't allowed to put yet. Strange, but NXT 2.0 has never given me any issues like you experienced. Only real issue could be the durability and occassional streaking, but nothing of that sort.

[Zodiac1]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

While were doing before and after shots i thought i'd post up a couple of the before and after shots of my engine bay tidy up which i carried out over the previous winter months.

[Zodiac1]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

If you're so very capable...why is this thread here? I mean...you're spending all this time conducting this test that this sealant burns and this wax doesn't....posting pics etc. 26 years in the trade...****, that's almost as long as I've been alive.

So where are the pics of the car now? You've shared a negative experience with a Meguiar's product........so share a positive with your other product....perhaps other forum members can learn from your unfortunate unpleasant experience.

Here you go lads , Rappy i ended up scotchbriting the roof with white vinegar to loosen the deposits. I did not wet sand due to the increased likelihood of breaking through....am very glad to say it didn't breakthrough. Tho i did spend an indecent amount of time being very careful not to.

Then used farecla g3 , megs ultimate compound and finally 2 coats of blue velvet.

Before





After







The pics don't really do the shine justice as they were taken when i finished late last night but i think it shows enough.

As said previously the megs compound is very impressive and will definately be on my shopping list should i
run out of it along with the other items very kindly given by Meguiars in the uk.

Cream puff : I'm hear because,

1, I believe that the nxt was a definate cause of this and wanted/got a good response from meguiars by flagging it up.
I didn't mind putting the labour in but wanted remuneration on the materials.

2, As you can see i have the skills to rectify the problem , however no matter how much you know , you never know everything and its a good to keep an open mind and take in positive suggestions from others.

3, Finally i wanted to help others who have faced or may face similar problems, If i was a layman and faced with this i'd have probably faced a big bill to rectify it ...unless someone made a kind offer such as rappy did.

[CreamPuff]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

so we now wait for the pictures from the other side of the pond...

[BillE]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Please guys, keep this thread civil.

Lot of interesting and helpful info has been swapped back and forth, don't want to see it closed.

As Rappy said, been a good 'debate'...

Bill

[rapport25]

Firstly and with sincere gratitude for the offer of sorting my car out i would like to thank Rapport, However and i mean this with the greatest of respect to the guy i am very capable of sorting the mess and will post pics of the finished article.

Thanks again tho , it was a very kind offer and had i not had 26 years in the trade i would have bitten your hand off.

If you're so very capable...why is this thread here? I mean...you're spending all this time conducting this test that this sealant burns and this wax doesn't....posting pics etc. 26 years in the trade...****, that's almost as long as I've been alive.

So where are the pics of the car now? You've shared a negative experience with a Meguiar's product........so share a positive with your other product....perhaps other forum members can learn from your unfortunate unpleasant experience.

Well said!!! :-):-):-). Also the thread title repaint required? Why would you continue to wet sand paint that was thin?

Everyday is a school day no matter what your age is.
I will never stop learning or claim I know everything. If I was wet sanding I would be reaching for 3000 grit not 1500.

Either way its been a good debate :-):-), thanks!!

Rappy.

[CreamPuff]

Re: Water spotting after using nxt , now requiring repaint.

Firstly and with sincere gratitude for the offer of sorting my car out i would like to thank Rapport, However and i mean this with the greatest of respect to the guy i am very capable of sorting the mess and will post pics of the finished article.

Thanks again tho , it was a very kind offer and had i not had 26 years in the trade i would have bitten your hand off.

If you're so very capable...why is this thread here? I mean...you're spending all this time conducting this test that this sealant burns and this wax doesn't....posting pics etc. 26 years in the trade...****, that's almost as long as I've been alive.

So where are the pics of the car now? You've shared a negative experience with a Meguiar's product........so share a positive with your other product....perhaps other forum members can learn from your unfortunate unpleasant experience.

[rapport25]

"Hi , I used meguiars paint cleaner then nxt2 paste applyed sparingly. I have tried a small area with clay bar farecla g3 , white vinegar to neutralise the alkaline deposits, swirl x. only flatting and polishing works. This wouldn't be so bad if the repaint of years ago prior to my ownership still had a significant layer left to work with. My gut feeling is that i'll break through in several places if i f+p the whole areas".

The only ref to a clay bar in the thread. I think your process is a little wrong. Clayed after you had the water spot issue?