Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

[Nezil]

I have been going over my car panel by panel using the following process:

Ultimate Compound with Polishing Pad -> Ultimate Polish with Finishing Pad -> Gold Class Carnauba Plus Liquid with Finishing Pad

Initially I was quite impressed, particularly with UCs cutting ability and resultant shine, but I'm now getting very frustrated.

I'm working late evening, so I don't have any sun to check my work, and am instead relying on a Brinkmann Dual Xenon. Once I've finished a section and pack up for the evening I'm quite impressed, but by the time morning comes the car is covered in a slightly blotchy appearance that is almost impossible to get rid of.

At first I thought this might be due to the Gold Class sweating overnight, but I think this would wipe off quite easily, especially with a mist of GCQD. The thing is, it doesn't... If anything the QD makes things worse! Where the QD has been directly sprayed seems to leave the paintwork darker, and wiping it around the paint does not seem to give even coverage. Even spraying on excessive amounts of QD doesn't seem to work as the different areas dry at different rates.

I should point out that all of this observation is happening in the morning under mostly fluorescent lighting. Once I move the car out into the sun, the blotchiness is almost impossible to see, but instead appears as a kind of patchy greasiness.

Thinkinkg about this in more detail now, I first noticed this effect when I applied Zaino sealant after the UP stage. I guessed at that point that it was because Zaino wanted a fresh clean panel to start with, and perhaps there was some incompatibility with UP. Now I am beginning to think that UP is to blame again, and the polishing oils left behind are preventing GCCP from bonding to the paint.

Could this be possible? Should I really need to IPA wipe down each panel before applying GCCP wax?

I like the (initial) look of GCCP, but this issue is making me seriously consider going back to a Zaino routine, which would be a shame because I fancied a change.

Neil.

[Murr1525]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

How heavy is the Gold Class wax being applied? How long to dry?

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

I'm applying with a DA, so that should be fairly light application.

I'm leaving it at least 30 ~ 45 mins to dry.

[wifpd4]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

Just some clarification questions. Are you working the Ultimate Compound and then wiping it off before it dries? Are you working the Ultimate Polish and then wiping it off before it dries? Are you doing a swipe test before buffing off the Gold Class wax?

What sort of temperatures are you working in?

Thanks,

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

Yes I am wiping both UC and UP off before they dry, working in roughly 2x2 ft sections, I wipe off each section before moving to the next.

Swipe test... I'm not sure what you mean by this... Could be my problem?

Temperatures in my garage are between 20 and 25 centigrade (68 ~ 77 Fahrenheit)

[Murr1525]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

This seems to have a few pics of "thin" wax application, just to be sure.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?46754-How-to-apply-a-very-thin-coat-of-wax-with-a-G110v2&highlight=thin+heavy+wax+application

The swipe test is just a matter of taking a finger or finger wrapped in a towel, and swiping the wax you applied, to see if it wipes off clean/clear. If there is any smearing, the wax should dry longer.

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

Yep, that looks like how I did it. I think the only difference being that I am not doing the whole car at once, so I never quite get to the point of not needing to add more product, just a panel or two at a time; I only have time to do the whole process to part of the car each night, but I'm nearly finished now. I would say that to do the roof and down the A, B and C pillars I did a very thin swirl of GCCP on the pad about 3, maybe 4 times maximum.

I think it is possible that I didn't leave the wax long enough to dry. I thought that 15 minutes was enough, and that 45 would be overkill. Most times I applied the wax, cleared up, watched a TV show, then went back and removed the residue.

Even assuming that removing too soon is my problem, and I'm not convinced it is:

What could I do to rectify it?
Why doesn't GCQD remove these blotches in the morning?
How can we explain that this same effect appeared when I used Zaino as an LSP as well?

[Murr1525]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

It is possible waxing by hand may be easier for only one panel... They way the machine pads absorb a lot at first can make things trickier at first. I know if I get smearing, it is more likely to be where I started.

Not sure about all the answers, but it seems like ignoring it or waiting for rain/the next wash often solves the issue. Might just be that a little longer in the sun finishes the wax drying.

If the wax is the issue (or things under it), in theory you would have to remove the wax, and the QD sprays are made to try to not do that.

Have not used Zaino products.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

It sounds as though you're applying a properly thin coat of Gold Class, that's for sure. It does sound like you may not be letting it dry long enough, and drying time can and will be extended depending on temperature and humidity. This is true not only of Gold Class, but pretty much every other wax/sealant on the market. Of course, some will dry faster than others in any condition, but all will be impacted to some degree by temp and humidity. This would certainly explain why your previous method of applying, cleaning up, and watching a TV show resulted in an easy wipe off with no streaking or blotchy appearance. A properly thin coat of wax/sealant should still wipe off very easily even if you let it sit on the paint for a couple of hours.

It could be that your application of Ultimate Polish wasn't wiped off quite as thoroughly as it could be, but the presence of UP in and of itself won't cause any bonding issues with Gold Class. It might with the Zaino because they are pretty emphatic about the surface being totally devoid of anything before applying their sealant (but in all honesty, I personally have my doubts that this is a critical as they make it out to be). But unless you're struggling to remove the UP, we really don't think this is the issue here.

Since you're doing this work in the evening it's very likely that the humidity is rising and playing a big role in drying time. Sunnyvale is close enough to the ocean for this to be a real issue: here in Irvine when we hold our Open Garage sessions on Thursday nights we've seen situations where people apply a wax to a black car just after dark, let it dry for 15 to 20 minutes and then see this exact same streaking/blotchy issue. The short dry time and higher level of humidity in the air conspire to create this problem. Even Zaino talks about drying time being impacted by humidity and temperature, and that their product needs to be completely dry before removal. The use of a QD the following morning won't rectify the issue because by then the uneven application of the LSP has set in and you can no longer "move the product" around to even it out. You should, however, be able to correct this with a light application of a cleaner wax that dries pretty quickly, like ColorX or even good old A12 Cleaner Wax. But definitely give even this type of product plenty of time to dry fully before wipe off. You can then apply Gold Class over it a day or two later, after correcting a few other panels, or however you wish to approach it. It may even clean up by simply applying a fresh coat of Gold Class and letting it dry fully before removal, making the cleaner wax unnecessary.





One point about letting a wax sit on the paint for an extended period of time: in very high humidity conditions, and we're talking Houston, TX or Miami, FL humidity here, you run the risk of the hazed wax actually picking up moisture from the air after a couple of hours or more. This can not only lead to potential streaking, but it can also make removal more difficult than it needs to be. In very low humidity situations where any wax/sealant will dry in just a few minutes (think Phoenix in August or SoCal when the Santa Ana conditions drop humidity to single digits) you can leave a properly thin coat of wax on the car for 6 hours or more and it will still wipe off with ease. You won't really gain anything from doing it, however, and we really don't recommend the practice, but it can be done. Just not in Houston when humidity is so high the air actually feels thick.

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

Murr1525,

Thanks for your suggestion. I wonder too if a wash might solve some of these problems, but I don't really want to do that yet since I've not finished compounding the rest of the car.

Michael,

Thanks also for your suggestion, though I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I have never (yet) had GCCP leave a good finish the next morning; every day it has been blotchy, even after the times that I've watched a TV show for 45 minutes. The blotchy / streaky effect does not seem to be present when I take the wax off at night, it's the next morning that I really notice it.

You are right that the humidity does rise in the evening here, though not quite as badly as it does further up the peninsula! That could be having some influence on things, and I will try leaving the wax on for a little longer.

I work from home most of the time, and am now in fact. I might try to get a coat of GCCP on this afternoon before it gets dark and see if the streaking / blotches are there still.

The effect is far more noticeable on horizontal panels like the hood and trunk, so I think I'll do a little test... one half of the hood and trunk I will wipe clean with IPA, hopefully starting from nothing, and the other side I'll do nothing in preparation, and give both panels new coats of GCCP, again with the DA. Both of these I'll leave to dry for more than an hour, and hopefully we'll see in the morning how things have turned out.

My personal feeling now, is that the issue is caused by one of the following:

• Ultimate Polish leaving behind some oils that are creating the smearing
• Me not leaving the GCCP long enough time to cure
• GCCP requiring a wash / rinse after removing the wax

I really hope I can get a good finish with GCCP... I want so much to like this product!

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

OK, so as promised, I've now applied a fresh coat of GCCP to the hood and trunk, and I also did a fender as well because I accidentally sprayed some IPA onto that panel. I divided both the hood and trunk in two down the middle, and IPA'd one side before applying the GCCP. The other side was basically untouched, smeary and blotchy.

One thing is for sure... the IPA wipe definitely removed the smears and blotchiness, leaving some very shiny paintwork. What was interesting is that it also removed the 'darkening' effect that was present on the other areas. I guess that's to be expected, but didn't expect it to be as dramatic.

Just need to wait and see how it comes off in an hour or so.

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

I have just now removed the wax after leaving it on the car for 1 hour and 40 minutes.

The most frustrating thing here is that the blotchiness was present on both sides; my IPA wipe had no influence on the effect at all, which basically rules out Ultimate Polish' influence on things.

1 hour 40 minutes should have been long enough cure time, so we can rule out that aspect as well.

I really don't know what to make of this now... does Gold Class always leave this effect and it's just not noticeable to most people?

I did notice one thing when I was wiping off the wax just now. The panels either side of the trunk, which were still blotchy from last night's application, became noticeably lighter in colour as I wiped off the trunk and the microfiber touched those areas. I decided to try wiping these areas some more, and sure enough, the panels slowly became lighter in patches, and therefore more blotchy!

I'm actually starting to wonder if my microfiber towels are either removing too much wax, or too little. The blotchiness is clearly different thicknesses of wax being left behind on the panel; the darker the blotch, the thicker the layer of wax. If I rub hard enough, I am actually able to lighten the darker blotches, but not consistently enough to make a uniform finish.

I'm now lost for what to do... Should I just give up on GCCP? Should I try the paste version?

[CHzo6]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

I have had this happen to me with several types of liquid wax and switching to the paste version cured it for me. That being said, I have used those same many types of liquid wax with 100% satisfaction as well.

[Nezil]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

I have tried to take some photos to illustrate the problem. I should point out that there is no issue with gloss or reflectivity, only in difference of colour. Although it's fairly obvious when looking at the paint by eye, it was extremely difficult to photograph the issue. Because of this, and the small size of images after upload, I have adjusted some level in Photoshop to make the effect easier to see. I include both the original un-touched photo, and the Photoshop adjusted one to more highlight the problem. To be honest, with you eyes looks more like the Photoshop images!

The first section I took a photo of is the right side of the trunk lid. In this section I drew a star with the Microfiber; I did not have to press that hard, but more than I would if simply wiping off after letting the wax cure. Original image first:

Then the Photoshoped version:

After this, I wiped an 'N' (my initial) in the left side of the trunk. Again, originals first, then Photoshop'd images:

The images speak for themselves, and the marks and patches are visible even in the non-photoshop'd files, they're just a little harder to see. Overall the finish is pretty awful, and I can't seem to improve on it.

CHz06, It's nice to hear that I'm not alone in seeing this. I'd be tempted to go and buy some paste wax, but I'm concerned that I'd be throwing good money after bad... Can anyone else confirm that they've seen this problem, and that the paste version does not have these issues?

[ffboy]

Re: Can't remove the haze / blotchiness after applying Gold Class

Paste some waxes while a bit more difficult to apply thinly, can be better in giving more even finish/gloss. It does make the user apply waxes slower and more methodically since it dort of drags a bit more than the liquid. Sometimes I have certain blotches or unevenness to our car's paint after applying NXT 2.0 Liquid to the paint. The first NXT 2.0 i ever used was the paste version. FOr a polymer product, it doesn't apply as easily as I felt it should, then a relative gave me the liquid NXT 2.0.

The paste version was better for me even though I wasn't too happy about the application, removal was ok; not as effortless as the liquid but I didn't have any real issues with smearing. The liquid was a more effortless experience in application and removal, but it had more streaks. Also had similar experience with non-megs products, like Collinite insulator wax and 476s. 476s does require a bit more effort, but does not streak like insulator wax does on some occassions.

I personally recommend using the paste version, but before you buy one try what megs recommend for any issues with ultimate wax (liquid). Take a microfiber, dampen it by misting it with water (alternatively, you can also mist the panel, like you would with a quick detailer) just a little bit and just wipe it across the panel to even out the coat of wax. It may just be the solution for your problems. Same intructions can be found on 3M Performance Finish Wax.