M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

[LedFoot]

Well unfortunately I have a lot of scratches on my car's roof, hood, and rear deck lid. From a few feet away you can't see them, but up close it looks like the car was wiped with an abrasive brush. I think what caused it was hasty snow/ice removal in the winter. There doesn't appear to be any kind of clearcoat failure (as posted in the thread on that topic). These are definitely scratches.

Anyway, my first attempt to get rid of the scratches was with the Deep Crystal paint cleaner. That didn't work so I tried Scratch X 2.0 and applied to a test spot. After a few applications with "passion" there was little improvement if any. I thought for sure the Ultimate Compound would do the trick but no luck with that either. Again I did 3 applications and the test area still looks the same as the other affected areas. All my applications were done by hand using a foam applicator pad.

So I'm thinking my next step is to try the M105 Ultra Cut compound or wet sand (followed by compound), then polish and wax. I'm certainly no detailing expert but I have conquered a couple paint catastrophies with my car so I've learned a thing or two, but this seems like a really challenging task. It would be my guess that these scratches are fairly deep in the clearcoat and that the clearcoat itself is fairly hard.

I'm thinking I have no other options but to break out the big guns and do the wet sanding or the ultra cut. I don't have a rotary or orbital buffer so I will either give in and buy one or do the work by hand. Hopefully I can figure out how to post pics here...

Any thoughts on what I should do and why? Thanks in advance!!!

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

Scratch marks on roof:


Scratch marks on roof (different angle):



Car from 3 feet away:

[Marc08EX]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

I did a car that looked like that and was able to revive it temporarily. Within a year, his CC eventually failed. To me, that looks like a different type of CC failure. At least on the verge of starting it. I really hope I'm wrong though.

Here's the link to the detail I did years ago:
What do you guys think about this one (Results are in!)

Take a look at the trunk's condition prior to detailing. It looks similar to your pic. They look more like scratches.

[Showmob]

Before you think about sanding give a da polisher a try removing scratches by hand is tedious and way more trouble then its worth. A polisher will give you a deeper cut and better results with less effort. I would try ultimate compound and 105 with a da before wet sanding.

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

Before you think about sanding give a da polisher a try removing scratches by hand is tedious and way more trouble then its worth. A polisher will give you a deeper cut and better results with less effort. I would try ultimate compound and 105 with a da before wet sanding.

That is kinda what I was thinking too. It's the next logical step. Wet sanding is last resort.

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

I did a car that looked like that and was able to revive it temporarily. Within a year, his CC eventually failed. To me, that looks like a different type of CC failure. At least on the verge of starting it. I really hope I'm wrong though.

Here's the link to the detail I did years ago:
What do you guys think about this one (Results are in!)

Take a look at the trunk's condition prior to detailing. It looks similar to your pic. They look more like scratches.

I don't think the CC is failing, it definitely looks like a bunch of scratches but the CC is not peeling or flaking or anything.


Thanks for the responses guys!

[MCA]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

Definitely get a "real" polisher (rotary or DA) and try 105 before you wetsand. Wetsanding is going to leave marring behind that will probably need 105 to clear up anways...your arm will fall off if you have to remove wetsand marring by hand.

[Detailing by M]

105 works wonders.
Your paint looks like cc failiur but its a pic.
105 is always my go to.
By hand is rediculious, you need mechanical power to do tge job right.

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

Yeah I'm definitely going to buy a DA polisher then in the next week or two. I will try using the Ultimate Compund first and if no luck then it will be the 105. If the 105 leaves any scratches behind (as far as I know it really shouldnt) I guess I can smooth it over with Scratch X 2.0 or the deep crystal paint cleaner.

Are there any particular pads you guys recommend I use for the DA with the 105? And is there any benefit to using the DA over rotary, or vice versa?


I don't think it is CC failure. This didn't happen on it's own. Last winter we got a couple terrible snowstorms and I remember hastily removing snow & ice with a scraper and after that I started noticing the scratches. They are on all panels of the car where snow accumulates. There is no paint fade, haze, or chipping/peeling. I will post more pics that are not taken in direct sunlight. My guess is that the clearcoat is very hard and that's why the Ultimate Compound by hand didn't help. So hopefully the DA will work. Thanks again.

[andytsang]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

If you have to go wet sanding, please take a look of this thread by Mr. Stoops

The Power of 3000 Grit

Hope this help.

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

If you have to go wet sanding, please take a look of this thread by Mr. Stoops

The Power of 3000 Grit

Hope this help.

Thanks for that! Very interesting write-up. Now after reading that I'm thinking maybe damp sanding with a DA and 3000 grit may be better...

It says damp sanding with a DA and 3000 grit is less invasive to the paint than applying 105 with a rotary. I'm wondering how harsh/invasive applying the 105 with a DA is compared to wet sanding with DA. From what I understand, a rotary takes a lot more skill to use correctly than a DA. Decisions decisions. Since I'm not going to buy BOTH a rotary and a DA and I'm certainly not a pro, i will go with a DA. I guess I could try damp sanding with the DA on a small test area and 105 with the DA on another test area and see what works best.

[Nezil]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

It's great that you're thinking of doing a test area, since that's always recommended.

The usual process for a test area, and for all paint correction work for that matter, is to start with the least aggressive first, and then move up if necessary.

Your photos sure do look pretty bad, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference a DA makes to your process, it's so so much more effective than polishing by hand. My advice to you, would be to start your test area with materials that you already have, such as Ultimate Compound, on a Meguiars Yellow Polishing pad. Take a look at the videos to make sure that you have your technique right, and that will be a great start. #105 isn't that much different to Ultimate Compound, and you already have a bottle of that, so it seems fairly pointless to waste money on another similar product.

If Ultimate Compound on a Yellow pad doesn't work, you have two choices... Step up to a more abrasive system, or go over the area with the same materials for multiple passes. The multiple passes approach will take you longer, but you're not a professional being paid by the hour, and you're only wanting to fix this problem once. It's by far the safer option, and the one that I'd go with if I were you.

My concern here is that if your paint is damaged so badly that you really need to start sanding, it likely needs the consultation of a specialist who can actually see the panel rather than just one photo on a forum. You might be correct that sanding would fix your problems quicker, but I'm not sure I'd want to test that theory on my own car. If you make any mistakes, your only option is a respray.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

As has been pointed out, going from hand application of any liquid, even M105, straight to wet sanding is a huge jump. Since you will absolutely require a power tool to remove your sanding marks, and since sanding and rotary buffing are both very advanced processes that are best NOT self taught on a vehicle you care about, we're going to recommend the following:

Pick up a good DA buffer and the DA Microfiber Correction System. Those scratches look really, really bad and our gut feeling is that traditional foam pads, even with M105, might struggle with them. The DAMF System will allow you to reach rotary levels of cut without the long, steep learning curve of that tool - and as such, without the potential to do real damage, too. Read through D/A Buffing 101 - An Introduction to the G110v2 and similar tools to familiarize yourself with the basic use of a DA, and then read Using Meguiar's D/A Microfiber Correction System for specifics on using this system with a DA. In the hands of a novice such as yourself, this is going to be the fastest and safest way to remove these scratches. The DA buffer, the correct backing plate, a pair of each microfiber disc, and 16 oz bottles of the two liquids will cost about the same as a rotary buffer, the backing plate and pads needed for it, and the proper quality sand paper that you'd need to do the job correctly. And the chances of something going horribly wrong drop from "almost certain" to "nil".

Now, about those scratches..... can you feel any of them with your fingernail? Our concern is that there are so many, that they look so deep, and that they are so closely spaced that they could have compromised the clear coat even if it isn't failing at the moment. If you can feel these scratches, or even just a small percentage of them, do NOT try to remove everything 100% as doing so will remove so much clear that you very likely will compromise the life expectancy of it, if it hasn't happened already. If you can not feel them at all and the pictures are making them look worse than perhaps they really are, then so be it.

[LedFoot]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

^^^ Thanks Michael! I will take your advice. I have already ruled out a rotary after reading several threads and will purchase a DA and the DAMF items you mentioned. I guess if this doesn't work I have no choice but to try a more abrasive compound or the damp sanding method with the DA as discussed in the thread andytsang posted the link to.

Is it necessary that I use the DAMF correction compound and wax from the kit, or can I use Ultimate Compound and Tech Wax (since I've already purchased these)? Would M105 be better than Ultimate or DAMF correction compound?

As for the scratches, surprisingly, no, I can't feel them with my fingernail. They do look horrible in the pic. I snapped the pics up very close and at a certain angle so they would be most visible. After washing/waxing the car they don't look quite as bad and you have to get within 1-2 feet of the car to notice them. There is no hazing or white spots just the scratches.

Thanks again everyone for your input. It may be a week or two before I purchase the DAMF items and get around to doing the work, but I will keep you guys posted and post up pics of my results. Feel free to keep the comments coming.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M105 Ultra Cut vs. Wet Sanding - Need Advice

Is it necessary that I use the DAMF correction compound and wax from the kit, or can I use Ultimate Compound and Tech Wax (since I've already purchased these)? Would M105 be better than Ultimate or DAMF correction compound?

To minimize your costs you could, at the very minimum, pick up the W67DA backing plate (this is mandatory), a two pack of the DMC5 Microfiber Cutting Discs, and a 16oz bottle of D300 Correction Compound. That should take care of the "heavy lifting" as it were, removing the defects quite efficiently. Whether or not this process creates some level of hazing on this paint is hard to say until you actually use it, but if it does you can then clean up that haze very easily with a light pass of UC on a foam polishing pad, and then apply your NXT Tech Wax 2.0. If no haze is present after removing the defects (which is more than likely going to be the case), then you can go straight to the NXT.

There is no problem mixing and matching processes as described above, but we do recommend sticking with the D300 Correction Compound instead of UC or M105, even though it's perfectly OK to use them if you don't have other options. UC won't cut as much as D300, and M105 would be both more expensive and create a lot more dust than D300, hence our strong recommendation for D300 here (and it's extremely cost effective, too).

Just make sure you use the microfiber pads and D300 properly - 4800 opm (speed setting 4 on the G110v2) and plenty of pressure. Don't be shy about the pressure, just keep the tool moving slowly over the paint and you'll be fine.