Micro scratches just from driving.

[vctrku]

Hey, I am very new to car detailing and I had completely detailed the car a few weeks ago, but soon noticed swirls and cob webbing in the paint shortly after while inspecting the paint in the sun. I had originally thought that it might had been caused by me wiping and touching the car wrong after the complete detailing, so I re-polished and waxed the entire car about a week ago. Then, today was the first time I drove the car since I detailed it the second time and during the time, I had made sure to not even touch the car. Then, when I got back and inspected the paint, I noticed lots of scratches and cob webbing again. Is it really possible that scratches can be formed on the paint just from driving? I would really like some help, as I would like to learn how to properly maintain my paint between full detailings so I do not have to do it so often. Thanks in advance for all your help!

[Murr1525]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

What are you working on?

What products, etc were you using to remove them?

[Fishmaniac]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

From my experience, swirls arent caused by driving. They are caused by inappropriatly washing, drying and detailing. Chances are, the swirls were there from the get go. Next time you detail, take a look at her in direct sunlight as soon as you are finished.

[vctrku]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Okay, so I have a Tsukaba Red Hyundai Genesis Coupe and the first time I detailed my car, I washed it, clayed, used Ultimate Polish, then finishing off with Ultimate Paste Wax. The second time, I used Ultimate Polish, then Ultimate Paste Wax, followed with a second coat of Ultimate Paste Wax this time, with more than 24 hours curing time in between applications. All of this was done by hand. I always inspect the car before and after I do anything, all in sunlight. Actually, I am quite obsessed with detailing my car, so I am always looking at the car. I do everything on a cool surface in the shade. Each time I finish wiping the wax off my car, it looks very close to flawless except for a few tiny scratches here and there. The problem is that I had not touched the paint at all, and the only thing I had changed was that I drove it, and when I got back with the car idled on the driveway so that I could open the garage door I also inspected the paint and now noticed that it was not only dusty, but also had lots of cob webbing.

[Murr1525]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

My concern would be that with those products being very mild, you arent actually removing the swirls in the first place.

[vctrku]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Ah, that is very interesting! I never thought of that as a possibility, but after I finish everything it really looks perfect. It looks like I had taken away every single scratch. I am just confused as to how those scratches randomly appear.

[Murr1525]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Well, if the polish/wax just covers the swirls, and you get a little bit of weather/rain, etc on the wax, they will start to show back up again.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Your car's finish can look perfect following a correction under the lights in your garage, and even under the glare of halogen worklights. But the sun is the real heartbreaker of many an accomplished detailer who was convinced he/she just completed the perfect detail. The only way to be sure is to perform an IPA wipedown following the compounding step of your detail and inspect the finish under direct sunlight. Ultimately you may have to accept that only garage queens will keep a perfect finish. Daily drivers must still contend with the elements, dust, and pollen.

[vctrku]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Wait, my scratches were only covered? Very interesting. I guess you are right in that the products I used were too gentle and just covered the scratches. I did not know that before. I really thought all the scratches were removed. Though, I did inspect everything in direct sunlight, not just from a tiny garage light or anything so I know everything was flawless right after my detailing. I just really did not know that some of the products just covered minor scratches. I guess that is what it means on the Ultimate Polish bottle when it says it "eliminates fine swirl marks", that it does not exactly remove them, but just fills them in, along with my application of wax. Thanks for all your info guys! I really appreciate everything! I guess you are right in saying only cars completely kept in the garage can maintain such flawlessness as I do not drive this car much, but it was still taken out, so that is the difference. Well, maybe I will try going at my entire car with a proper paint cleaner like Ultimate Compound, or even Scratch X 2.0 seeing as my scratches are not that bad to remove as much of the scratches as possible instead of just letting the polish and wax fill them in. When I find time, I will tackle this new project as I am sure it would take an entire day. Thanks though guys! This was a very informative thread and even though I am a complete beginner, I hope it can help other newer detailers too. I will post back in the near future to update my progress!

[Murr1525]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Wait, my scratches were only covered? Very interesting. I guess you are right in that the products I used were too gentle and just covered the scratches. I did not know that before. I really thought all the scratches were removed. Though, I did inspect everything in direct sunlight, not just from a tiny garage light or anything so I know everything was flawless right after my detailing. I just really did not know that some of the products just covered minor scratches. I guess that is what it means on the Ultimate Polish bottle when it says it "eliminates fine swirl marks", that it does not exactly remove them, but just fills them in, along with my application of wax.

Well, we are just throwing it out there as a possibility, but it sounds like it may be the case. Swirls wont show up just from staring at the paint (although it may seem like it), so either something is being dragged over the surface, or the original ones are still there.

Swirls/scratches are just low points in the paint, so oils and wax can fill them in temporarily.

Ult. Polish is very mild, and working by hand can be mild, so low chance of removing swirls. Now Ult. Polish applied by machine, or real soft paint, it will have a higher chance of removing swirls. You just have to match up your paint, product, and technique.

Something like Ult. Compound, which is a strong product, might remove wet sanding marks by DA on one car, and not even touch mild swirls by hand on another. On another car, it may remove swirls by hand, and on another leave all kinds of marring by hand. Its all just a learning thing, as far as the products you like, and what your car/cars like.

Thanks for all your info guys! I really appreciate everything! I guess you are right in saying only cars completely kept in the garage can maintain such flawlessness as I do not drive this car much, but it was still taken out, so that is the difference.

You should be able to keep a pretty high standard once things are taken care.

Well, maybe I will try going at my entire car with a proper paint cleaner like Ultimate Compound, or even Scratch X 2.0 seeing as my scratches are not that bad to remove as much of the scratches as possible instead of just letting the polish and wax fill them in.

UC is stronger, I would look at that. ScratchX 2.0 is milder, and likely will end up costing you more.

When I find time, I will tackle this new project as I am sure it would take an entire day.

You may find you just want to focus on a panel a day.

Also, people will use things like IPA, or Glass Cleaner to remove any oils and check their work along the way.

[Fishmaniac]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Well, if the polish/wax just covers the swirls, and you get a little bit of weather/rain, etc on the wax, they will start to show back up again.

Well he didnt say that he drove in any increment weather. It just doesnt make any sense. They HAD to have been there from the moment he drove off. Even if the scratches were covered up by product, simply driving around would not uncover them, right?

Vctrku, any chance you can get pics of these scratches "in sunlight"? Maybe detail (as you did previously) a small section and take some pics. Then take some pics the next day at around the same time (if you drive it that is) and take a pic.

[Selectchoice]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Well he didnt say that he drove in any increment weather. It just doesnt make any sense. They HAD to have been there from the moment he drove off. Even if the scratches were covered up by product, simply driving around would not uncover them, right?

Actually, the simple act of driving can do exactly this. I had a friend who had a lot of fine swirls and couldn't be bothered removing them as he wasn't really one with the time or patience to go chasing them all out. His approach was to polish his paint with M07, which did a superb job of covering all the fine swirls and scratches, and a fairly good job of covering the bigger marks too.

He also encountered the same thing as the OP. Without touching the car, the swirls/scratches reappeared as if by magic. The heat created on the painted surfaces 'evaporated' (for want of an exact scientific term) the oils remaining on the paint and showed the covered marks as magically reappearing.

Keep in mind automotive paint can get really, really hot just by sitting in the sun on a mild day. Even cloudy days can generate enough heat to warm up painted panels to be hot to the touch. Add to this the heated effect of engines and working parts of a car...

I did a test a few years back measuring the heat of different coloured paints in the same environment. Without boring people here and staying on track, I remember temperatures on some of the test vehicles exceeding 176 degrees, when the outside temperature was a mild 70 degrees.

It's a tough environment for automotive paint to endure. The 'simple act' of driving a car from A to B can really be quite harsh.

[vctrku]

Re: Micro scratches just from driving.

Ah, more great insite! I did not drive the car in any rain, or anything as it was a clear, hot sunny day. I had totally forgotten to take the heat into account and it does sound very true that the heat could have somehow melted, or evapourated the oils or anything that was in the scratches to reveal scratches that I did not really remove in the first place, just covered it up. I would really like to get some picture for you guys but I have been very busy and still will be very busy in the coming weeks to months. Thank you all very much for all your helpful information and quick replies! I really do look forward to tackling the entire car with Ultimate Compound or something to actually clean and remove the fine swirls in the near future as I am very confident in being able to maintain the finish to a high standard after it is close to perfection. I have been eying and dreaming of getting myself a PC7424XP for some time now to make my job quicker and easier but it is quite an investment to make. I will try to get back to you guys as soon as possible with results!