Polishing after recent respray

[Nezil]

After moving to the US at the start of the year, I bought my first every brand new car - a Jaguar XF Portfolio Sport in Midnight Black Pearl. Since it was a brand new car, I was determined to keep it in excellent condition, and have been reasonably happy with the results so far (In another post for another day, I'll explain my weekly wash regime with a foam cannon, Meguiars Hyperwash and De-ionised water in more detail).

Unfortunately a few weeks ago I noticed a paint blemish had appeared on the front corner of the hood. It was only visible at some angles, but when you could see it, it was blindingly obvious and looked a little bit like a pink kiss! It certainly wasn't there when I first bought the car, so it must have been a slow chemical reaction of some sort.

Jaguar US were very kind about this, and arranged for the hood to be re-sprayed at a local authorised repair centre. I was understandably nervous about this; although I did want my car fixed, I was concerned about how good a colour match would be possible on a respray, and if the 'texture' of the paint would be the same as the rest of the car. I got confirmation from the paint shop that they wouldn't blend the colour into any panels other than the hood, and that they would only apply clear coat to the hood as well. So I went ahead with this last week.

When I came to pick up the car, I rejected it immediately because of the heavy swirls and buffer trails that were visible in the fresh paintwork. They agreed to do some more work polishing these out, but I had to reject it again for the same reasons the second day. This time they requested the help of a local detailing company, who understood exactly what I wanted - no swirls at all, and no buffer trails. Even after this company had done their work I was still not satisfied. The detailing company was given one more try and rectifying the problem, and I was told to pick up the car from Jaguar rather than the paint shop; I guess they didn't want to see me again!

When I finally picked up the car from Jaguar, it was much improved, but not perfect; I just decided that I'd have to do the work myself, and I was happy to finally have my car back!

I picked up a bottle of Meguiars Ultra Polish and went over the hood a couple of times with my PC and a Meguiars Finishing Pad, and whilst it did improve the finish, making it noticeably darker, it didn't get rid of much of the swirls at all. Next I tried using an old bottle of Poorboys SSR 2.5 that I had, this time with a Meguiars Polishing Pad, and this too didn't take out all of the swirls (a few more than the Ultra Polish though).

When I washed my car yesterday and noticed the foam running off much more than it used to. On closer inspection I can see that the paint shop has washed and polished my whole car; something that I distinctly told them not to do! In doing this they have added a huge number of additional swirls to the whole rest of my car, and I'm now faced with the challenge of getting rid of them all!

So now I was at the point where I thought I should ask the advice of others. I can't seem to get rid of the swirls with the products that I've tried so far, and I'm nervous about polishing too much on a freshly painted panel. I'm considering trying Meguiars Ultra Compound since it's easy to get hold of locally, but 'compound' seems very aggressive.

Please help me to get rid of the swirls, and bring the former glory back to my car!

Neil.

[Murr1525]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

Well, you'll likely want to use a polishing pad. And no reason not to try a test spot with the UC. Best to check a small area before trying the whole car.

Also be sure to check your technique.. Enough pressure to squish the foam pad some, but still spin freely. Slow movments, overlapping passes in both directions. and not to large of a work area.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

First off, welcome to MOL, Neil!

Congrats on the new Jag - the XF is a fantastic car! - but we're really sorry to hear about your negative experience with the repaint process, body shop, etc. It's very unfortunate that the detailer they hired wasn't able to fully correct all the buffer trails, but it could well be that they hired someone who only uses a rotary and isn't as skilled as they should be when doing so. We this far too often. As for the body shop not being able to return a completely swirl free finish, that's not a big surprise as that isn't really their job - usually. There is a very different mind set between a body shop and a detailer when it comes to buffing paint, hence our greater disappointment that the detailer didn't get everything cleared up to your satisfaction.

As for your attempts to correct things, we're not too surprised to hear that Ultimate Polish didn't remove everything as it's extremely mild. You mentioned that the Poorboys SSR 2.5 removed more, but still not everything - again not a huge surprise as it is more aggressive than UP but still not terribly strong. What you didn't mention was the tool speed you used, how much pressure, how large/small an area you worked on each time, etc. All of these are critical when working with a DA buffer since getting any one of them "wrong" will compromise your results. A good DA is an extremely capable tool, but technique is critical with it since it's also a really safe tool. Don't be afraid of using Ultimate Compound on your Jag. Yes, it's a compound with some very capable cutting power, but it makes use of very specialized and high tech abrasives that are extremely fine and as such leaves a very nice finish on its own. Read through this article for some additional pointers on making the most of this tool.

A few other things: We highly recommend that you start with a test spot. We'd start with Ultimate Compound, a polishing pad, and speed 5 on the tool. Use very slow arm movements across the paint, and keep your work area down to no more than 2'x 2'. Work that area in overlapping strokes moving from side to side, then up and down, then repeat both directions and wipe off the residue while still wet. Now give this spot a critical evaluation in either direct sunlight or with a good quality light. If you need a second pass, or you just need to go a bit longer with your buffing, then do so. But if it looks like all the buffer marks are gone, then this same process should do the trick on the rest of the car. Using UC on a DA in this manner will remove such a small amount of paint that if you were to take before and after paint thickness readings you wouldn't measure a difference. Now, will this one step leave the paint ready for wax? Maybe, but that's up to you. But from your narrative above, we get the feeling that you're going to hold this finish to a very high standard - which we like. A lot. To that end, we highly recommend following Ultimate Compound with M205 Ultra Finishing Polish on a finishing pad with your DA set to speed 4. The increase in clarity and gloss with this process is usually pretty fantastic, if not downright amazing. Follow that with the wax/sealant of your choice and you should end up with a truly amazing finish on the XF.

[Nezil]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

Murr1525 & Michael,

Thanks very much for your input. I'm particularly impressed that you Michael were able to comment on a competitor's product; that was a pleasant surprise.

I have placed an order for a bottle of Ultimate Compound, and a Brinkmann Dual Xenon lamp. These should arrive at some point on Saturday, and I plan to get to work with this that evening, I have an 11 month old son who goes to bed at 7.30pm, so I get some time to myself after that!

Since you mentioned it Michael, I used speed 5 with both the UP and the SSR 2.5. I was working in small sections, 6 to cover the whole hood, but I'm not 100% sure if I was using the right pressure as I worked. Now that I've read your post on using a D/A polisher, I think I'll try pressing down a little harder.

Although I was working in small sections, I hadn't taped them off to compare before and after like you suggested. I'll try that this weekend and take some photos of the progress.

Thanks for settling my nerves about using UC. It's nice to know that it's correcting defects while removing such a small amount of the clear coat.

Neil.

[Nezil]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

Yesterday I was very ill, and didn't get to do any polishing or testing of products at all... But that didn't matter because the Ultimate Compound, and Brinkmann lamp that I ordered arrived one day early and I was able to give everything a test on Friday night instead!

I have to say, I'm extremely impressed with Ultimate Compound. As Michael says, the finish with a DA Polishing pad is already spectacular, and I honestly do think it's ready for wax at this point (despite my desire for perfection). 99% of the swirls and buffer trails were removed after just one application of UC, and I'm sure that 100% of them were gone with the second application. Since I have some Ultimate Polish and a Finishing pad available, I gave the panels a once over with this after the UC, before putting on some sealant to protect the finish (more on this a little later).

So some photos I think are in order:

First a photo of the section that I didn't touch. Look at what the butchers at the paint shop / detailer did!

Then the other half of that wing after one application of UC:

These next two really show the difference before and after:

So this brings me to my next question, which I'll write in another post below.

[Nezil]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

A promised, another question...

Now that I've got the panels clean, swirl free and polished, I obviously want to protect them. In the past, I had used Zaino products, and was pretty happy with them. Zaino Z2 and Z5 are polymer sealants, and last for a very long time and leave a great finish if used correctly. The Zaino that I have is now running out, and it's time to look at either replacing them, or alternatives.

After the UC, UP treatment above, I treated the panels I'd worked on to Zaino Z2 sealant, but found it more difficult than normal to remove after curing. To be honest, it seemed like there was an incompatibility between the sealant and the oils in UP. Is that possible?

If that is possible, should I first remove the oils left over from UP with some IPA before applying the Zaino? I've never done this before, so if this sounds like a good idea please give me some directions on how I would go about doing this (e.g. 50% solution in a spray bottle, wipe with Microfiber etc.).

The alternative of course is to keep within the Meguiars family of products, which I would certainly consider doing. If I was to do that, which Meguiars LSP would be most appropriate for my car, being pearlescent black. I wash my car about once a week, but would rather not have to re-apply LSP more than once every six months if possible.

Thanks as always for the help, it's been great so far!

[ffboy]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

As far as I know, Zaino requires the paint be stripped of any previous wax, oils that may be found in compounds/glazes/polishes/cleaners, which is why they recommend washing the car with dawn or any decent dishwashing liquid. With meguiar's products, it is perfectly fine to apply wax right over the glaze/polish.

If the paint has been prepped, corrected and polished real well, all megs waxes will give pretty much the same shine, the differences will be very subtle. But if you really want to choose between some waxes from meguiar's, here are a few inputs that i hope will be helpful in your quest to keep you jag looking real nice.

As for the wax or sealant you want to use, you can go synthetic. Ultimate Wax is the most durable wax from megs, and provides the best shine on dark paint in the synthetic wax department, and reflections are crisper, but do read about user's experience about it. NXT 2.0 is the 2nd most durable, works better on light colored paint, but to me it's still a good wax/sealant. It's tried and tested, and is easy to use. Gold Class Carnauba Plus should give the deepest, richest shine on dark paint, but on paper it won't last as long as the 2 synthetic waxes.

For maintenance and in between waxes, you can use the ultimate combo (UQD and UQW) or the Gold Class combo (gold class quick wax & gold class quick detailer). For looks on dark paint, gold class is the way to go. For more durability and better water beading, Ultimates should be the way to go for you.

[Nezil]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

I had a bit of time last night, and got hold of a bottle of IPA. I diluted this ~50% with De-ionized water, and used this to spray and wipe down the panels that I'd previously proceed: Ultimate Compound on Polish Pad -> Ultimate Polish on Finishing Pad -> Z2 Sealant applied by hand.

After cleaning these panels with IPA, I re-applied Z2, and found that it went on and wiped off a lot easier than when put on top of the Ultimate Polish. From both ffboy's comments and other research that I'd done since my last post, it seems to line up with the general consensus; Zaino should be applied to a totally clean surface.

Another 'issue' with Zaino, is that first coats should either be applied with ZFX additive mixed in, or on top of a base coat of Z-AIO. I don't have any Z-AIO, and while I do have some ZFX, whatever you mix up has to be used in 12 hours, and I'm not in a position to be able to do the whole car right now; that would mean wasting a lot of product... a bit of a Zaino fail!

I think I'm going to get hold of some Gold Class Carnauba Plus Wax, and see how I like the effect. I've spent some of this morning reading up on different people's opinions, and it seems that Carnauba based products offer a warmer shine that can show of the pearl effect on darker cars like mine, while synthetic sealants like Zaino and Ultimate Wax offer a clearer crisper and perhaps more 'clinical' reflection.

I have tried P21S carnauba based wax in the past, and found it to give a warm reflection, but also to attract dirt. After a short time (a few weeks) I found that it required a Dawn wash to remove the old dirty wax before starting again. At that time I was using this on a very light blue metallic Honda S2000, and I preferred the look of Zaino on that car. I also liked the fact that it lasted a hell of a lot better between full details.

If I have time, I'll try to do half of the car:

Ultimate Compound on Polish Pad -> Ultimate Polish on Finishing Pad -> IPA Wipedown -> 2/3 coats of Zaino Z2 with ZFX additive

And the other half of the car:

Ultimate Compound on Polish Pad -> Ultimate Polish on Finishing Pad -> Gold Class Carnauba Plus Wax

If I'm able to do one whole side for each approach, it should provide quite a good comparison (hopefully without making my car look too odd!

[Nezil]

Re: Polishing after recent respray

I thought I'd give an update since my last post, and now that I've had chance to go over some additional panels of my car.

I don't think I'm going to have time to do a side by side comparison of Gold Class Carnauba Plus and Zaino, but I am going to do the whole car in Meguiars products, finishing in Gold Class Carnauba Plus because I really like the dark wet look that this wax is providing.

I know it's been said before that the difference between synthetic sealants and Carnauba is that while more transparent, synthetics give an almost clinical reflection. Now that I've got a darker car, I can really see what people mean. As I said before, my previous car was a very light blue Honda S2000 (image below), and when I'd tried a Carnauba wax on this vehicle I really hadn't been impressed. It wasn't that it didn't shine, or reflect well; it was just that the warmer reflection didn't really go well with the light colour it's painted in.

My new car, in pearlescent black is a whole different story. After taking delivery, I'd given it a couple of coats of Zaino synthetic sealant, and was impressed with the shine, but it almost appeared plastic. The reflections were basically white, against the dark black paint. Even the smaller reflections where very bright, and the whole effect, while shiny, was not a gloss look, but more like a plastic mirror for want of a better description.

On the new car, Gold Class brings down the brightness of the reflections, whilst at the same time making the whole vehicle look much more 'wet'. It's a far more deep shine than Zaino was able to give.

I've not tried using Gold Class wax on top of a synthetic sealant, as I'm really not sure what will happen when the Gold Class breaks down. I'm electing, for now, to wash the vehicle often, and apply Gold Class Quick Wax between full waxing every few months.