DA Disappointment!

[dangle]

I received my new G110v2 yesterday along with (2) W2087 Cutting Pads and (4) W2097 Finishing Pads. I had a combination of UC, M205 and ULW already at my disposal and figured this combination would be sufficient for the correction of some pretty beat up paint. I went through the http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...-(and-similar)thread numerous times leading up to yesterday and have been watching videos, etc. to make sure I knew the DA technique.

First up was my DD ('95 Honda Civic). The paint is bad. Clearcoat failure on the roof, many scratches, dings, chips, swirls... not all correctable, but I figured it would be a great start for my first DA experiment. I washed and clayed the car and moved on to paint correction on the hood. I started with the W2087 pad and UC, on about a 20" x 20" area. After 4 section passes with moderate pressure and slow arm swing, the product was thin and I felt like it was starting to dry, so I wiped the area clean with a microfiber. To my dismay, the numerous fine scratches were still apparent, but the clarity and depth of the paint was fantastic. There was a hazy appearance of the paint before correction, and the UC cleaned it up nice.

After 4 more section passes, more of the same. I couldn't seem to get any defect correction with the UC. The scratches were not deep enough to feel with my fingernail. Here are a few pictures, but I didn't capture the defects that still remained. Pictures are after UC and M205.





I then moved on to my Dad's car (2003 Buick Century). Performed the same process as listed above, but the same results! This was disheartening... so I pulled my sister's black 2004 Acura RSX into the garage for the ultimate test. This car had some pretty bad scratches on the hood (some could be felt with your fingernail). I wasn't expecting 100% correction, but any correction would've been nice. With a new pad and new-found energy, I went at a section on the hood. Same dead-end result. Pictures are after UC only.










The area to the left of the tape line was "corrected"



I understand that these scratches in the above photo are fairly deep (could feel a number of them with my fingernail), but I was expecting SOME correction! The fine scratches in the earlier pictures should've been corrected in my opinion.

So, do I need to grab M105? A more aggressive pad? Help!

[Marc08EX]

Re: DA Disappointment!

I think that you did a great job with your DD civic. It cleaned it up very nicely.

I think the scratches on the black car are way too deep and might require wet sanding. If Ultimate Compound didn't work then try M105 and see if that works.

[dangle]

Re: DA Disappointment!

I think that you did a great job with your DD civic. It cleaned it up very nicely.

I think the scratches on the black car are way too deep and might require wet sanding. If Ultimate Compound didn't work then try M105 and see if that works.

Thanks for the response.

I agree that the scratches on the RSX are pretty deep. But in the first few pictures, you can see some random scratches on the hood that I thought would've been "touched up" using the UC, if not completely corrected. I'll be picking up the M105 this week for sure, is there a more aggressive pad option also? I know the W2077? (Burgundy) pad is not recommended, but am tempted to try it on these scratches.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Let's confirm a couple of things first before just jumping into a more aggressive liquid. This is your first time with a DA and technique is critically important. We'd much rather you concentrate on that a bit first before just going to a more aggressive liquid and/or pad. That mindset will get you into trouble in the long run because you'll eventually run into a situation where even that won't work if your technique is lacking. We see new users make some very common mistakes on a regular basis, and once they dial in their technique they suddenly start getting great results.

You mentioned the W8207 pad and UC, but you didn't say what speed you were running the buffer at. It should be at speed 5, maybe even a touch over 5. Also, try using more pressure - you can use so much pressure, in fact, that you almost stop the pad from spinning. Try this: apply enough pressure to stop the pad, then ease up just enough to get it rotating again. It will be rotating slowly, but it will be rotating. Of course at this point it's critical to keep the pad as flat against the paint as possible or the rotation will stop.

[umi000]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Let's confirm a couple of things first before just jumping into a more aggressive liquid. This is your first time with a DA and technique is critically important. We'd much rather you concentrate on that a bit first before just going to a more aggressive liquid and/or pad. That mindset will get you into trouble in the long run because you'll eventually run into a situation where even that won't work if your technique is lacking. We see new users make some very common mistakes on a regular basis, and once they dial in their technique they suddenly start getting great results.

You mentioned the W8207 pad and UC, but you didn't say what speed you were running the buffer at. It should be at speed 5, maybe even a touch over 5. Also, try using more pressure - you can use so much pressure, in fact, that you almost stop the pad from spinning. Try this: apply enough pressure to stop the pad, then ease up just enough to get it rotating again. It will be rotating slowly, but it will be rotating. Of course at this point it's critical to keep the pad as flat against the paint as possible or the rotation will stop.

In case you haven't done this yet, you can mark your backing plate with a sharpie, or a piece of colored tape, so it's easier to see whether the plate is rotating.

[dangle]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Let's confirm a couple of things first before just jumping into a more aggressive liquid. This is your first time with a DA and technique is critically important. We'd much rather you concentrate on that a bit first before just going to a more aggressive liquid and/or pad. That mindset will get you into trouble in the long run because you'll eventually run into a situation where even that won't work if your technique is lacking. We see new users make some very common mistakes on a regular basis, and once they dial in their technique they suddenly start getting great results.

You mentioned the W8207 pad and UC, but you didn't say what speed you were running the buffer at. It should be at speed 5, maybe even a touch over 5. Also, try using more pressure - you can use so much pressure, in fact, that you almost stop the pad from spinning. Try this: apply enough pressure to stop the pad, then ease up just enough to get it rotating again. It will be rotating slowly, but it will be rotating. Of course at this point it's critical to keep the pad as flat against the paint as possible or the rotation will stop.

I was doing correction at speed 5 and polishing at speed 3 as outlined in the referenced link in my first post. With the Civic, I experimented quite a bit with pressure and arm speed. I am using the W68 backing plate (which is black) and made a reference line on it using blue marker. I went pretty aggressive with the pressure once I got comfortable with the machine's movement and feel. I used enough pressure to "balloon" the pad quite a bit, but not enough to stop the rotation of the pad completlely for 2 section passes (much to the dismay of my arms!). I know this car's paint is in overall poor condition and am not concerned about damaging it, so I hit it pretty "hard".

For technique, I was also wondering if I had things correct and would confirm my process/actions against the "Intro to DA" thread. I did have trouble figuring out "too much or not enough" product on my pad. But I stuck to cleaning on the fly every other application of product.

I suppose I was suggesting a more aggressive combination to test the "limits" of this process on my DD as I wouldn't be concerned with damaging the paint if it came to it (not that I am trying to do that!). I'd feel more comfortable finding that limit on my car rather than someone elses. I know this knowledge come with expereince, but I am trying to learn on my car rather than someone elses.

I know that I was working under flourescent lighting which really brings out the defects in the paint. I also had halogen, xenon and led lights handy to check the paint condition periodically. The swirls were removed and the hazing was cleaned up nicely.

Thanks for your help

[greg0303]

Re: DA Disappointment!

When I started my adventure with dual action polishers my biggest mistakes were:

- too fast arm speed, it used to take me 1 hour on average to do a full car paint correction step, now with slow arm speed it's more like 2-4 hours but defect removal is at least 90%;
- working on too large area, I even worked on half a hood at the time and of course all lubricating agents were evaporated shortening my buffing cycles giving me very poor removal ability,
- not enough down pressure, I was afraid to increase it but now I know how it improves overall effectiveness.

I really like Ultimate Compound with dual action polishers because of its long buffing cycles, user friendly performance without dusting. I prime my pads with UC and just add 2-4 drops per section.

[rapport25]

Great comments from all the guys Mike & Greg etc... We have all been there and still learning :-).

I would suggest sticking to one car and perfecting your technique before moving on to another.

[dangle]

Great comments from all the guys Mike & Greg etc... We have all been there and still learning :-).

I would suggest sticking to one car and perfecting your technique before moving on to another.

Thanks for the response. The reason I switched cars was because I thought maybe the Honda had a hard clear oat. And the black car allows for easier picture taking.

I will continue to refine my technique and report back.

[FX4619]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Thanks for the response. The reason I switched cars was because I thought maybe the Honda had a hard clear oat. And the black car allows for easier picture taking.

I will continue to refine my technique and report back.

Have you look into the MF DA Correction System? Might be something to look into if the paint is really that messed up. Here is the link to the thread.....

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?47855-Using-Meguiar-s-D-A-Microfiber-Correction-System&highlight=MF+DA+Correction+system

[dangle]

I have looked into it and want to try it once I get comfortable with the DA. It looks to be a great system!

[FX4619]

I have looked into it and want to try it once I get comfortable with the DA. It looks to be a great system!

I know what you mean about the DA. I received one but it was defective and had to return it. My new one should be delivered in a couple days. I can't wait to try it out this weekend.

The MF correction system looks like it would work wonders. I think the kit is about $90 though.

[jfelbab]

Re: DA Disappointment!

I'm reminded of a similar issue I had some 16 years ago when I got my first DA, a G100. Mike Phillips set me on the right track with technique and doing test spots to find which pad, product and techniques worked. I spent a few days doing various tests until I found the best approach. In my experience, technique is a major factor in results. Not to be overlooked is the Kevin Brown approach to pad priming. Also, clean pads work, saturated pads don't. This is even more important with the new MF pads. Much of the effectiveness is from acquired skill and that takes patience and practice. I'd encourage you to also consider the new MF pads which are now available at several Walmarts. I believe you can and will achieve better results and it looks like you have a great testbed to practice on.

[dangle]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Well, I was at it again last night. This time I used a new platform for testing. After washing/claying/drying, I went at the hood with the DA w/ W8207 & UC on speed 5 with moderate to heavy pressure and SLOWWWW arm speed. The results were a bit disappointing.

I made the switch to the DA w/ W8207 & M105 on speed 5.5 with moderate to heavy pressure and SLOOWWW arm speed. I was surprised to find pretty good correction! I found the workability of M105 to be finicky, but plan to continue experimenting to find the best technique with it. At times, it dried up fast and was hard to remove. I ended up using a small spray bottle and misted over the area with water when this happened to make it easier to remove. Is this okay?

Here are some pics:


Defects: CC failure and some scratches


Hazy finish, scratches


More scratches


After: M105 w/ W8207 + M205 w/ W9207 + #26 w/ W9207

CC failure spot is cleaned up and scratches are corrected.


Some scratches still remain, but major improvement! Haziness is completely corrected.


The other CC failure spot just to the right of the light reflection.


50/50


Left side uncorrected, right side is corrected. Notice the haziness of the light reflection on the left.


Hazy


Not hazy


The hood had either some VERY hard water spots (small areas less than the diameter of a dime) that weren't being corrected, or it may be the start of CC failure. I couldn't really tell, but they were abundant on the hood.

On another note, this is the second time I have used my DA and it sounds VERY "chattery". It makes ALOT of noise like the bearings or bushings are bad? Is this normal? I watched a number of videos of people using the Meguiar's DA, but couldn't really hear it with thiers. Help?

[billoftt]

Re: DA Disappointment!

Of course at this point it's critical to keep the pad as flat against the paint as possible or the rotation will stop.

Or, in the case of Soft Buff 2.0 4 inch pads, fly off of the backing plate and land on the roof of the neighbor,s car port.