Which Products Have Silicone?????

[cbourke]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

I would agree that the body shop comment is nonsense. Trapping oxygen??? I would put pure silicone on my clearcoat, as it absorbs nothing. Clearcoat failure on top is simply due to the sun and heat, in my opinion. You can fry an egg on my black horizontal surfaces, and the vertical ones are almost cool. Again, in my opinion, if you are going to park your car out in the sun all day, you can wax it 'till the cows come home, but if it is prone to failure, it will. I cannot possibly comprehend how a micron (whatever the thickness is) of wax can prevent clearcoat failure. In my opinion, waxing is for aesthetics, to enhance beauty, and to give me something to do. And I do love the effect of M16 on black.

So it sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter much if you wax or don't wax (for protection purposes).........so I should be good with just good ole clay bar and show glaze for that enhanced beauty without the risk of damage from 'not' waxing?

I appreciate all the info by the way........I'm sure as long as some of you guys have been in/around the industry, I can't be the only one that's heard of waxing vehicles is a 'bad' thing whether it be true or nonsense?????

[Murr1525]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Well, the paint is designed to to be a protective coating for the car, and is designed to sit out in the weather and still keep the customer happy with the color, etc of their car.

But I wash, wax, etc my car, and neighbors/co-workers dont. My car looks better for some reason.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

For as much as we all love detailing our cars, and let's face it, we wouldn't be hanging out on detailing forums if we didn't, the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of the car owning public does not wax regularly. Body shops love a car that requires very little, if any, stripping prior to painting as it just makes their lives that much easier. When a car comes in that has been well maintained and properly waxed, they need to pay closer attention to surface prep and that takes more time. Plus, if the guy doing the prep is a bit lazy about it and they shoot paint over it anyway, they end up having to redo the panel, and they don't get paid to do that. It's extra time and materials that they need to eat, and they don't like that.

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

So it sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter much if you wax or don't wax (for protection purposes).........so I should be good with just good ole clay bar and show glaze for that enhanced beauty without the risk of damage from 'not' waxing?

That is my opinion only. I am no expert; there are a lot of people on this site with far more expertise than I. Some truly believe what they say, as I do, and let's face it, Meqs is trying to sell a product. We all have to make up our own minds what we need/want to do.

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Wax and sealants make your car easier to clean. Dirt and industrial contaminants don't stick as well so washing them off is easier.

I agree with this statement, however I also note that my waxed car picks up dust far easier than my unwaxed silver car. Yes, the black car shows the dust better (or worse) but if you run your hand over the silver one, it definitely seems to have less dust after going over the same roads. Maybe the wax creates more static, I don't know. Anyway gentlemen (and ladies) as Michael says we are all here because we like to take care of our cars. Some wax for protection, some do it for the look, some do it for both reasons. Whatever your reason, I am sure we all have great looking vehicles using Megs.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Ah yes, the old "silicone will crack your dash, rot your tires, etc" myth.


There is no such thing as a "silicone based" product for use on your vehicles interior or exterior. Products are either water based or solvent based, and most water based products contain some silicone. But silicone is an inert ingredient that is used to either enhance a property of another ingredient, make application and/or removal of a product easier, or possibly add gloss.

Most of us hang out on other car forums as well as detailing forums, and almost every car forum has a detailing section and a self appointed guru. And each of those forums receives the same couple of questions from a member somewhere along the line: "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?" and "what do you guys use on your tires?". Let's take a look at that first one: "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?" Invariably you get 5 guys offering up 5 different products, and at least a couple of guys who say to stay away from Armor All because it will crack your dash, or to stay away from silicone based products and to use only water based products. That's just a lot of misinformation. Armor All is not going to crack your dash. Period. Armor All has to be the single most maligned product in the industry, and there's just no good reason for it. From a purely technical standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using Armor All on your dash or other appropriate interior parts. Now, you may find it leaves a glossier finish than you like, but that's a personal choice and has nothing to do with any damage risk.

On another forum I frequent this very question, "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?", came up a couple of years back. And all the usual answers were given. Except for the one guy who took the water based vs silicone based bunk a step further. He mentioned a specific water based dressing that he'd been using on all his cars every month for several years and never had the slightest issue. Proof, he said, that water based was the way to go. So I looked up the product he was recommending and obtained their MSDS document and then compared it to our Natural Shine, also a water based product, and one that contains some silicone. Well, as it turns out, his beloved water based product contains silicone, too, and nearly double the amount found in Natural Shine. That's not good, bad, or otherwise - it just is. Silicone is not the issue at all. When I pointed this out in the thread, he never responded.

As for tire use, the browning or "blooming" as it's called is caused by the anti ozonants built into the tire leaching to the surface in order to do their job and protect the rubber from dry rot and the effects of ozone. Some tires will exhibit more blooming than others, and any sort of solvent (no matter how mild) in a tire dressing can release these anti ozonants from the surface and reveal the brown discoloration. We used to have 4 cars at home, and each car had a different brand of tire. All 4 cars were treated the exact same way, and got the exact same tire dressing on a regular basis. Only the Michelin shod car had this brown discoloration on the sidewalls, and it was sort of a pain to deal with. If it was the product causing it, why didn't the other three brands show this discoloration? It's down to the proprietary mix of anti-ozonants used by the various tire manufacturers.

So why does any car company caution against the use of silicone or any other ingredient in their manuals? Mostly to cover themselves, and in a very broad way. People do some pretty silly things sometimes and will use some, shall we say "interesting" products where they shouldn't be used. It's easier for a manufacturer to paint these cautions with very broad strokes. Heck, Chevrolet recommends the use of a black wax on the carbon fiber trim of the ZR1 Corvette. Why? So that the wax won't leave white residue in the fine textured areas of the piece. How many black waxes do you know of? We can think of one. How many waxes will dry completely clear and not leave a residue? We can think of plenty.

Oh, by the way, the comment from the body shop guy who said "silicone containing products are bad is because it traps the oxygen in the paint and doesn't allow it to breathe which leads to oxidation that you see on the tops of so many cars. " is nonsense. The vast majority of cars you see with clear coat failure were never waxed, or maybe waxed a bit when new and then neglected. Waxes and sealants, even with silicone in them, are sacrificial barriers that break down over time. For those people who wax a car once a year, that car spends more time with virtually nothing on the paint rather than a fresh coat of silicone. Besides, if you're waxing the whole car, how come that clear coat failure is so common on the tops (as was mentioned) and so incredibly rare on the sides? If you're waxing the whole car wouldn't the effects be the same regardless of panel orientation?

This was the best Valentines present I have ever received. Thank you Michael for sharing your expansive wealth of knowledge with us.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

That is my opinion only. I am no expert; there are a lot of people on this site with far more expertise than I. Some truly believe what they say, as I do, and let's face it, Meqs is trying to sell a product. We all have to make up our own minds what we need/want to do.

That may be true, but I will also vouch with my personal reputation (and my soul if need be) - not one person I have ever met at Meguiar's struck me as the kind to mislead the public in order to sell a product. This has got to be one of the most honest, truth-seeking, caring companies on Earth. As a moderator (and guest detailer for SEMA) I have had the pleasure of dealing with Michael Stoops in particular quite a bit in person, on the phone and online - and not for one instant would I stop and question anything he says as being biased or having an agenda. Michael is an honest man, and if he says a product does X, Y or Z, I can assure you that to the absolute best of his knowledge and the limitations of science, that is what it does.

Mr. Stoops is not a salesman - he's a teacher and an honest man.

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

That may be true, but I will also vouch with my personal reputation (and my soul if need be) - not one person I have ever met at Meguiar's struck me as the kind to mislead the public in order to sell a product. This has got to be one of the most honest, truth-seeking, caring companies on Earth. As a moderator (and guest detailer for SEMA) I have had the pleasure of dealing with Michael Stoops in particular quite a bit in person, on the phone and online - and not for one instant would I stop and question anything he says as being biased or having an agenda. Michael is an honest man, and if he says a product does X, Y or Z, I can assure you that to the absolute best of his knowledge and the limitations of science, that is what it does.

Mr. Stoops is not a salesman - he's a teacher and an honest man.

I thought I had my final post in this thread, and signed off with a fairly congenial statement but in reading your reply, I had to add this. I neither suggested Meg's, you, or Michael Stoops was ANYTHING other than honest, nor were there any disparaging remarks against the products. Frankly I am a little annoyed at your inference, that if people at Megs are honest, people like me who are skeptical about all the wax hype, are somewhat less honest. The original poster, cbourke, asked about silicone, I replied that GM doesn't recommend it in interiors. He then asked for MY OPINION on the merits of wax, and I gave MY OPINION. If we are not allowed to post an opinion on this site, then announce it. One of the things I like about this site is that it seems to be objective, and even allows comments (good or bad) on competitors products, which shows that Meguiar's is proud and comfortable with comparisons and scrutiny. Mr. Stoops, thankfully, even debunked some Armorall myths. Some sites do not allow even the mention of a competitor. I have read many of Micheal's posts, watched his videos, learned a lot from him, and respect the man.. I really don't think he needs someone to vouch for his honesty. (it certainly doesn't look good with a little smily after it)

So I will repeat my statement, some people believe in waxing for protection, others believe it really isn't necessary with clearcoat but it does enhance the beauty, AND, Meg's wants to sell a product. This statement not questioning anyone's integrity or honesty.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Wow, so many nice things said about me in the midst of an ensuing altercation - that's a new one!!!

But seriously, folks, let's all just back it down a notch, OK? It's sometimes a bit difficult to make a point on a forum due to the total lack of inflection, facial expression, and overall lack of direct knowledge of one another as people to fully understand where they are, or might be, coming from. Blueline, we will admit that when you make comments like "You may call it nonsense (because you have a dog in the race)" and "Some truly believe what they say, as I do, and let's face it, Meqs is trying to sell a product." (and this isn't the first post where you've made such comments) it really does sound to us as though you think we're only spinning things to sell a product and that we are somehow rather disingenuous about it all. But then you turn right around and compliment many of our products, so in the end we figure we're just reading you wrong. Please understand I say this not to offend, nor to point any sort of blame whatsoever. Just pointing out how it, at times, looks from our perspective.

But either way, as you said, you're merely sharing your opinion, and we are perfectly fine with that. Heck, we're fine with people coming on MOL and flat out stating that they don't like one of our products (as long as they do so properly - but we hold them to that even when discussing negatives about a competitors product). We know we can't change everyone's way of thinking, nor do we really want to.

As for the existence of this forum, we really do consider it an extension of our Customer Care Center (ie tech support) and not sales related at all. From our point of view, most people who come to MOL have already purchased product, or are planning on purchasing Meguiar's products, and now just want to make sure they're going to use those products properly. As a matter of fact, when people take the "use the least aggressive method to get the job done" philosophy a bit too far and recommend that someone start out with SwirlX, move up to ScratchX 2.0 if they need something more aggressive and then switch to UC if the first two won't cut it, we'll step in and tell them flat out that we do not want them to go out and buy all three products just to find one that works.

In any event, how about we nip this in the bud and not let this turn into a big blow up. I think we all know where the other is coming from at this point, and we all share this crazy detailing bug, so let's go out and polish some paint, OK?

[cbourke]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Wow, so many nice things said about me in the midst of an ensuing altercation - that's a new one!!!

But seriously, folks, let's all just back it down a notch, OK? It's sometimes a bit difficult to make a point on a forum due to the total lack of inflection, facial expression, and overall lack of direct knowledge of one another as people to fully understand where they are, or might be, coming from. Blueline, we will admit that when you make comments like "You may call it nonsense (because you have a dog in the race)" and "Some truly believe what they say, as I do, and let's face it, Meqs is trying to sell a product." (and this isn't the first post where you've made such comments) it really does sound to us as though you think we're only spinning things to sell a product and that we are somehow rather disingenuous about it all. But then you turn right around and compliment many of our products, so in the end we figure we're just reading you wrong. Please understand I say this not to offend, nor to point any sort of blame whatsoever. Just pointing out how it, at times, looks from our perspective.

But either way, as you said, you're merely sharing your opinion, and we are perfectly fine with that. Heck, we're fine with people coming on MOL and flat out stating that they don't like one of our products (as long as they do so properly - but we hold them to that even when discussing negatives about a competitors product). We know we can't change everyone's way of thinking, nor do we really want to.

As for the existence of this forum, we really do consider it an extension of our Customer Care Center (ie tech support) and not sales related at all. From our point of view, most people who come to MOL have already purchased product, or are planning on purchasing Meguiar's products, and now just want to make sure they're going to use those products properly. As a matter of fact, when people take the "use the least aggressive method to get the job done" philosophy a bit too far and recommend that someone start out with SwirlX, move up to ScratchX 2.0 if they need something more aggressive and then switch to UC if the first two won't cut it, we'll step in and tell them flat out that we do not want them to go out and buy all three products just to find one that works.

In any event, how about we nip this in the bud and not let this turn into a big blow up. I think we all know where the other is coming from at this point, and we all share this crazy detailing bug, so let's go out and polish some paint, OK?

Leave it up to the new guy (me) to open up a big can of worms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol............One good thing is I'm getting edumacated in the process, so that's always a good thing, right!

[OldTimer]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Try ToughGuard. Go to www.toughguard.com They're Boeing certified, contain no silicone and are a resin that bonds to your paint. The best protection system I've ever used. A true skeptic that's been converted. Now I feel like I have to tell the world after spending so much time waxing my car. No other system out there carries their level of certification.

[Larry A]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Question for Mike True or false #7 was Meguiars LSP for many years.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Question for Mike True or false #7 was Meguiars LSP for many years.

From a body shop perspective, perhaps, since you don't want to apply a wax or sealant to fresh paint. But we've had waxes for many, many years so from a detailing perspective, #7 would not be used as an LSP.