M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

[asalah]

Hello

I'm starting a new detailing business in my country, and as far as I know... There're (atleast) 3 techniques for professional paint restoration:
1. Wool/foam pads with the classic M8x family (M80 through M85)
2. Wool/foam pads with the new M105 & M205 family
3. Microfiber pads, with the latest microfiber compounds


I believe I understand somehow the difference between the 2 options (from an older post in in this forum)
However, I think I need to understand the difference with the 3rd option....

1. Is is suitable for detailer shops, or it's mainly for car enthusiasts ?
2. Is it suitable for all paint conditions ? even for the severest conditions where we using M85 with a wool pad (maybe after some sanding) ??
3. Can it efficiently remove 1500grit sanding marks for example ?
4. Cost wise... Which solution is better ??
5. Is it suitable for super dried paints (needing oil based polishes) ?

Thanks

[Shawn T.]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

Get ready..................................................

First off, congratulations on starting the new detailing business!

There are actually an infinite number of ways to professionally polish a car but we will use your 3 for now I will explain the 3 steps just so we are both in the same page before I answer more in depth questions about each system.

1) This is the older system of paint correcction where an entirely different technology was used. The entire 8X's series was designed around Diminishing Abrasive Technology (DAT)and single stage paints. This is where they were mainly used and still used today. In fact, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by M80 Speed Glaze is an amazing combination for single stage paints as they gorge the paint with polishing oils while refining the surface using Diminishing Abrasives.

2) M105 and M205 use Super Micro Abrasive Technology (SMAT) meaning the abrasives do not become smaller as they are worked but stay the same size. This is why you can work a SMAT product for as long as you need, whether that be 1 pass or 6 passes. With DAT you had to work the product until the abrasives fully broke down which could take 4-6 passes. If DAT products weren't worked to the point where the abrasives were fully refined then you could be left with a scoured finish. M105 and M205 were also initialy designed as 2 step process for fresh paint that was wet sanded. This explains why M105 will not work with realy dried out single stage paint or very old, dry clear coats.

3) The new Microfiber system uses SMAT and the innovation of microfiber disks. The microfiber disks provide more cut than traditional foam pads ON A DA ONLY. It closes the gap significantly between the correction abiities of Dual Action Polishers and Rotary Polishers. It is also a 2 step system designed for OEM finishes (not fresh paint) in a production type setting where time is of the essence. You can cut, refine and wax in 2 steps instead of 3.

Now, let me answer each one of the next questions......................

1) It is suitable for both detailing shops and car enthusiasts as it can be purchased in sizes ranging from gallon jugs to 16 oz. bottles.

2) That depends on the type of finish, severity of defects, etc. However, the Microfiber Correction Compound (D300) is not designed as a replacement for a rotary, wool pad and an aggressive compound. There will be cases where the aforementioned combination is required. However, I would substitute M105 in place of M85 if working on newer clear coats. You could also put in M95 instead of M85 and M105. It has a traditional feel but cuts more than M85, cheaper than M105 and works better in hot, humid conditions than M105. That may be a necessary attribute considering your location.

3) I would say no. The Microfiber Correction Compound ws not designed as a replacement for M105 and wool or foam cutting pad. If finishing with 1500 grit I highly recommend a rotary, a wool pad and either M105 or M95.

4) Too hard to answer. They are different systems that accomplish and were designed for different types of paints. The M8X series will probably be the cheapest but may not be the most efficient for time wise if you are not dealing with single stage paints. M105 and M205 will be most cost effective (time wise) for removing sanding marks and refining the finish to a high gloss. The Microfiber Correction System is very affordable and is extremely efficient when not doing sanding. It is suited for quick 2 step restorations. Look for the video on YouTube from AutoGeek where Jason Rose explains the entire system and how it can be used and why it would be used over other systems.

5) Not particularly. It may work but it may not. It really involves a lot of testing.

I hope that helps! Anything else, feel free to ask or PM me or whatever! We are all here to help.

[asalah]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

That was a super reply

Thanks a million... Will try to digest it then come back with more concerns if any

[asalah]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

Just to wrap up:

1. For single stage paints, start with M83 (or less)... If it's not removing the defect, move up in the scale to M85 or M95... If the paint is too dry and absorbing your polish, then you can massage the car with M80, then back to M85 or M95

2. For clear coat paints, if there are sanding marks or severe defects... Use M105/M205... If the paint is too dry and absorbing your polish, go to #1

3. For clear coat paint, if paint conditions are relatively good... Use the microfiber for faster results... Again, if it's too dry, go to #1

Correct ?

[Shawn T.]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

1) Correct

2) Correct

3) Sort of. You can still use the Microfiber System if the paint is hammered and in orugh shape but don't expect to get show car results where every RIDS is removed.

[asalah]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

1) Correct

2) Correct

3) Sort of. You can still use the Microfiber System if the paint is hammered and in orugh shape but don't expect to get show car results where every RIDS is removed.

OK... Thanks very much

[Mark58]

Re: M105 & M205 Versus the new DA microfiber compounds

Get ready..................................................

First off, congratulations on starting the new detailing business!

There are actually an infinite number of ways to professionally polish a car but we will use your 3 for now I will explain the 3 steps just so we are both in the same page before I answer more in depth questions about each system.

1) This is the older system of paint correcction where an entirely different technology was used. The entire 8X's series was designed around Diminishing Abrasive Technology (DAT)and single stage paints. This is where they were mainly used and still used today. In fact, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by M80 Speed Glaze is an amazing combination for single stage paints as they gorge the paint with polishing oils while refining the surface using Diminishing Abrasives.

2) M105 and M205 use Super Micro Abrasive Technology (SMAT) meaning the abrasives do not become smaller as they are worked but stay the same size. This is why you can work a SMAT product for as long as you need, whether that be 1 pass or 6 passes. With DAT you had to work the product until the abrasives fully broke down which could take 4-6 passes. If DAT products weren't worked to the point where the abrasives were fully refined then you could be left with a scoured finish. M105 and M205 were also initialy designed as 2 step process for fresh paint that was wet sanded. This explains why M105 will not work with realy dried out single stage paint or very old, dry clear coats.

3) The new Microfiber system uses SMAT and the innovation of microfiber disks. The microfiber disks provide more cut than traditional foam pads ON A DA ONLY. It closes the gap significantly between the correction abiities of Dual Action Polishers and Rotary Polishers. It is also a 2 step system designed for OEM finishes (not fresh paint) in a production type setting where time is of the essence. You can cut, refine and wax in 2 steps instead of 3.

Now, let me answer each one of the next questions......................

1) It is suitable for both detailing shops and car enthusiasts as it can be purchased in sizes ranging from gallon jugs to 16 oz. bottles.

2) That depends on the type of finish, severity of defects, etc. However, the Microfiber Correction Compound (D300) is not designed as a replacement for a rotary, wool pad and an aggressive compound. There will be cases where the aforementioned combination is required. However, I would substitute M105 in place of M85 if working on newer clear coats. You could also put in M95 instead of M85 and M105. It has a traditional feel but cuts more than M85, cheaper than M105 and works better in hot, humid conditions than M105. That may be a necessary attribute considering your location.

3) I would say no. The Microfiber Correction Compound ws not designed as a replacement for M105 and wool or foam cutting pad. If finishing with 1500 grit I highly recommend a rotary, a wool pad and either M105 or M95.

4) Too hard to answer. They are different systems that accomplish and were designed for different types of paints. The M8X series will probably be the cheapest but may not be the most efficient for time wise if you are not dealing with single stage paints. M105 and M205 will be most cost effective (time wise) for removing sanding marks and refining the finish to a high gloss. The Microfiber Correction System is very affordable and is extremely efficient when not doing sanding. It is suited for quick 2 step restorations. Look for the video on YouTube from AutoGeek where Jason Rose explains the entire system and how it can be used and why it would be used over other systems.

5) Not particularly. It may work but it may not. It really involves a lot of testing.

I hope that helps! Anything else, feel free to ask or PM me or whatever! We are all here to help.

Great explanation!