Did I get bad bottles of APC+

[ethereal45]

Hi everyone,

I recently ordered 2 gallon sized containers of APC+ which came today. I was immediately taken back after recieving them, as they did not have that vivid orange color that I have seen when viewing pictures of the bottles online. I realize that these promotional shots are taken with proper lighting and may have the color saturation boosted, but these bottles looked nothing like that.

I was a bit concerned about the color initially, but that isn't important to me. I opened up both of the bottles and was excited to smell them, since everyone seems to agree that APC+ smells great. Unfortunately both of these bottles have a terrible chemical smell to them, an ammonia smell to be exact. I can detect absolutely zero citrus/orange scent on these products.

I opened one of the bottles and diluted it 10:1 to see if this would bring out more of the scent. I sprayed some on a towel and smelled again. No luck, the same nose burning ammonia scent, zero citrus.

I called Meguiars call center and spoke with someone on the phone, and he said the color variation isn't probably something to worry about, but that it is very odd that the smell was so unpleasant. Could I get some people to weigh in on this?

Here is a picture:


The left bottle is a more vivid orange color than the bottle on the right, but honestly they look better in this photo than they do in person. They look like fake orange ice tea, and smell awful. The labels are both very faded as well.

These bottles were purchased from a reputable vendor that many people on this forum have recommended. They have not gotten back to me as of this writing.

Thanks,
Alex

[Murr1525]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

People can have opinions on smells, but awful usually isn't a Meguiars option. I'd say it is worth following up further.

A post in the Customer Service area may also help.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

As Mat points out, one persons rose is another's, well........ not.

We just went down to the warehouse and checked the product we have on hand here. The color of the product in the bottles in local inventory look just like the ones you pictured here (a bit of color drift is not unusual and nothing to worry about). The color looks essentially the same as what we have here, and what I'm personally used to seeing with this product.

But the aroma you describe is odd. This product should have a fairly strong citrus aroma with very light chemical undertones. Yeah, it sounds like we've just left a wine tasting seminar, but it's important to try and be as accurate as possible here. Your description of "nose burning ammonia scent, zero citrus" is a bit troubling. We haven't heard anything from the field about a bad batch and we don't detect any ammonia smell to the product. We'd hate for you to send back two gallons of product if in fact they're fine. Can do us a quick favor and double check to see if there's a sticker on the bottom of the jugs with an alpha numeric code on it? That would be the batch code and it will help us with some tracing here. We may even ask for a sample of this back rather than the full gallons. We realize this might be a bit inconvenient for you as we'd be asking you to pour some off into a small bottle and ship it to us. Small plastic bottles can be found at WalMart and Target for under a dollar. Don't do this just yet though - we don't want to impose at this time. Just know that if we do ask for this, we're more than happy to make it up to you with some free product of your choice (within reason, of course, we aren't giving away free G110v2s so the rest of you can relax - we know how some of you get excited about this sort of thing!!!).

One step at a time here - check for those batch codes, please, and report back what you find.

Thanks for you help, and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience.


Oh, and we see that you've also posted this in the Customer Service Hotline section of MOL, but let's keep the discussion going here rather than duplicating efforts.

[ethereal45]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

My apologies for duplicating the post, I didn't know which was the proper area of the forum to discuss such a matter.

I went out into the garage and grabbed the sticker off the bottom of one of the gallons (the left bottle in that picture) and the tag is slightly torn, and I can't see the first number. I can make out "X1252HAQCJ" where X is an unknown character. The tag looks like it fell off the bottom of the other gallon.


Also worth mentioning, perhaps, is that the bottles appear to have leaked slightly during shipping. They were packaged very well, but when I opened the gallon bottles the seal on top was not intact. Instead, it was stuck up into the underside of the lid. It appears as though the product dissolved the adhesive and the seals managed to get stuck up inside the lids. The sides of the bottles were wrapped in plastic wrap, but were wet with product inside of this wrapping. I believe this is bottle labels (both front and back) appeared to be discolored and are peeling off.

I had a friend smell the bottles, and he agreed they did not smell remotely pleasant, and also described the smell as "Windex-like." He could not detect any citrus notes either. The odor is not as strong as plain Windex, but it definitely does have an overpowering ammonia scent like many industrial strength cleaners do.

[ethereal45]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

I just got off the phone with the owner of the business I purchased from -- extremely nice guy and was more than happy to answer any questions I have. Let me make it clear I'm not dissatisfied or disgruntled at all -- I'm studying analytical chemistry in college so this is more just a curiosity issue than anything else. I'm on summer vacation, have plenty of time on my hands, and a science mystery is a fun distraction for me. I hope I don't waste anyone's time with this.

I found some other pictures of the bottle and they appear to match mine exactly, and I understand and not concerned about the color variance. I'm really just curious about the smell. I've read countless posts about how much people enjoy the citrusy scent of this product, and I just don't get that at all.

I also mixed up a 10:1 and 4:1 dilution of this product (in the Meguiars OSHA bottle, nonetheless) and sprayed onto a clean microfiber towel. The same nauseating ammonia smell, with no detectable citrus. I used some 10:1 on the dash in my car, and it just plain stinks!

If I knew what the chemical was that provided the orange scent I could see if we had it in my lab and test for the presence of it with some gas chromatography-mass spectroscopy

Perhaps my familial DNA is missing a key olfactory protein for the detection of such scents?

[Murr1525]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

APC is a bit more chemical of a smell, but that would be green.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

OK. We're hesitant to just send you two replacement gallons of APC+ only because we aren't sure at this point that there's actually a problem. The batch code of the product we have in our local warehouse is a day off the batch code you provided, but this is also the first instance we've heard of where something may be amiss. Then again, with any issue there's always a first responder, so to speak.

We're going to have the plant pull their QC samples and check for anything out of the ordinary. If everything comes back OK then it may just be a case of the aroma of this product not playing well with your nose. Stranger things have happened! If that's the case we'll gladly send you a couple gallons of APC instead.

It should be noted, however, that the wide range of very attractive scents our consumer line is noted for don't necessarily carry over to the Detailer Line and definitely not over to the Mirror Glaze line. Marketing considerations, customer demands, etc dictate a lot of that. Perhaps the best example is Ultimate Quik Wax in the consumer line and Synthetic X-press Spray Wax in the Detailer line; identical products with the exception of the aroma - it's sort of like fruit punch in the consumer version and more like just a wax in the Detailer line.

If you don't mind just sitting tight on this for a couple of days while we do some more research on our end, we'd greatly appreciate it. One way or another we'll get you sorted on this.

[ethereal45]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

I really don't mean to cause anyone to jump through any hoops because I may be crazy, but I was reading through some more APC+ threads and nearly everyone seems to comment on the pleasant orange scent. I know it's not going to smell like a carafe of freshly squeezed orange juice, but a halfway pleasant scent isn't out of the question I wouldn't think.

I will have a few other people smell it and see if I really am crazy. Again, all of this discussion is coming out of sheer curiosity rather than a drive to have people go out of their way to send me replacement products. I'd be happy to send you a sample to see if it smells like the rest of the APC+ around the warehouse.

Mr. Stoops -- if someone told you to sniff a bottle of full strength APC+ would you say it smelled like citrus? I've had a few people smell this bottle now and everyones response has been "It smells like windex." No one can pick up any citrus.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

I really don't mean to cause anyone to jump through any hoops because I may be crazy, but I was reading through some more APC+ threads and nearly everyone seems to comment on the pleasant orange scent. I know it's not going to smell like a carafe of freshly squeezed orange juice, but a halfway pleasant scent isn't out of the question I wouldn't think.

I will have a few other people smell it and see if I really am crazy. Again, all of this discussion is coming out of sheer curiosity rather than a drive to have people go out of their way to send me replacement products. I'd be happy to send you a sample to see if it smells like the rest of the APC+ around the warehouse.

Mr. Stoops -- if someone told you to sniff a bottle of full strength APC+ would you say it smelled like citrus? I've had a few people smell this bottle now and everyones response has been "It smells like windex." No one can pick up any citrus.

Nope, no hoop jumping here. It really is this simple: if there's a bad batch out there we want to know about it, and if you paid good money for said bad batch, we want to make you whole. Having others smell the product you have on hand isn't a bad idea. As for me smelling it, I did. Brian Hann, our Customer Care Center Manager, Nick Winn, Surface Care Specialist in the Call Center, and I all went downstairs to check this out. None of us could detect an ammonia smell at all but we definitely picked up on the citrus aroma, but with a definite chemical undertone. You're right, it most definitely does not smell like mom's fresh squeezed orange juice, but "nauseating" or "stink" doesn't describe it either.

This reminds me of a situation a few years ago when a discussion about Last Touch Aerosol came up, specifically regarding the scent. One of our members loved it because he said it smelled like cherries. I, on the other hand, thought it smelled like bug spray. Not heavy at all, but definitely more Raid Ant & Roach Killer than cherries. To this day, as I slowly work my way through my last couple of cans of the stuff, that's all I can think of.

[ethereal45]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

Okay so I can be even more specific on the smell: It smells exactly like this stuff I used to use to bleach my hair with when I was in a freshman in high school (yes, yes, I know. But hey, I'm trying to be a scientist here). The product was L'Oreal Feria #200 Bleach. Here are the ingredients:

Potassium Persulfate, Sodium Persulfate, Ammonium Chloride, Sodium Silicate, Sodium Metasilicate, EDTA, Silica, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate.

If you have ever bleached your hair, and know how headache inducing the smell is, that is honestly what I'm getting from this bottle. It's pretty bad.

[ethereal45]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

After some further investigations comparing some APC+ from a different batch with these bottles in my chem lab (specifically using a PolarisQ GC/MS), I can report that I believe this is just a case of the product not agreeing with my sense of smell. I think I had some unrealistic expectations about what the product was going to smell like after reading other peoples (perhaps exaggerated) reports which really screwed with my perceptions. I do have a history of being very sensitive to chemical smells as well.

I hope I didn't cause anyone too much of a headache investigating this, or waste anyones time. I'm sure I can find a fellow detailer who would love a few gallons of APC+

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

Nice to see it's all been sorted, but sorry to hear your nose doesn't care for this particular product. Perhaps you can arrange an exchange for a different product(s) with another forum member.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Did I get bad bottles of APC+

Have you tried cleaning anything with the product yet? I have a sneaking suspicion you will forget all about the smell once you see what APC+ can do...