105 question ?

[SunnyD]

I'm getting 105 tomorrow but I need the d/a version and don't know if the megs rep I deal with has the d/a or non d/a version if he only has the non d/a would It still work with a d/a

[3Fitty]

Re: 105 question ?

Although it is formulated for rotary only, the original has been used by some with a DA with success. Although I really doubt he will have the rotary only version.

[wifpd4]

Re: 105 question ?

From the TV show Highlander, "...there can only be one..."






Images compliments Mike Phillips' gallery.

[SunnyD]

Re: 105 question ?

Thanks for the pic I can't wait to try it and 205

[Michael Stoops]

Re: 105 question ?

At introduction M105 was a rotary only product. Many people, of course, experimented with it and found it to be great when used with a DA, if a bit dusty (or really dusty, in some cases). In no time M105 became the go to product for many, many DA users and so we slightly altered the formulation to make it more compatible with DA use. It can still dust quite a bit on a DA, but it's better than the original formulation.

The down side, unfortunately, is that some people wish we'd never changed it in the first place as they feel the "new" version isn't quite as good for it's original intended use - rotary use with a wool pad to remove sanding marks from fresh paint. Now, that's the personal opinion of some users, while many others still love the way M105 can quickly cut through sanding marks and still leave a beautiful finish (for such a potent compound).

But in all honesty, if you're just using a DA to correct typical swirls, etchings and fine scratches then we really think you'll be happier with Ultimate Compound. It is derived from M105 and utilizes the same abrasive technology, but it's formulated in such a way as to give you a much longer buffing cycle on a DA without all the dust that M105 can often generate. We use UC exclusively in our Saturday Classes on a G110v2 with Soft Buff 2.0 7" pads. So far, everything that's been thrown at us has come out great. We choose a car brought in that day, not some controlled test panel that we know will give us a specific result. By choosing a random car brought to the class we don't know if we'll be working on a Chrysler, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Infinity, Honda, Toyota, etc. But we always go for a dark colored car and we prefer a lot of swirls in otherwise healthy paint. Look through all of the threads in the Pictures from Saturday Classes section of MOL and you'll see, time and time again, the outstanding results we achieve with this combo.

[SunnyD]

Re: 105 question ?

the reason im getting 105 is because im having trouble with uc on black cars i dont know if its my technique or the paint but im using it as ive read its suppouse to be used

[Michael Stoops]

Re: 105 question ?

What sort of trouble are you having with UC on black cars? Be careful how you evaluate the paint as you work on it. We've seen too many cases where someone is trying to remove defects from black paint and when the first pass doesn't make the paint look perfect, they want to get more aggressive. What they're failing to see is that they're trading bad swirls and other below surface defects for some fairly severe hazing. That doesn't mean they need to go more aggressive - they are, after all, removing the initial defects. But in the process they and the products they're using are hazing the paint. This isn't really the fault of the product but rather how that given paint is reacting/responding to such an aggressive product. In those cases a better result can often be had with a less aggressive product/process, not more aggressive.

When you evaluate your progress during a buffing session you're looking for changes in the finish initially, not just hoping that you go from a bunch of random defects to near perfection in a single step. Yes, sometimes that can be the case, but other times you need to step down to clear things up.

Let's say you have a car full of swirls and water spots, plus a few other random defects like etchings and straight line scratches, but the paint is otherwise healthy and glossy. So you start buffing with a given product, using good technique, etc and the result is an 80% reduction in defects, and the paint still looks glossy. Great! You're on the right track. No need to move to a more aggressive pad or product, just give it a second pass, or maybe just work the first pass for a bit longer (provided you aren't working the product to the point it dries out, of course). This could easily happen with Ultimate Compound on fairly hard paint with a lot of defects.

Now, let's say you have the exact same paint issues as described above, but your initial pass of a given product yields virtually no change in the appearance. The paint still looks glossy, but it looks like you've made almost no progress with swirl removal. A subsequent pass yields the same result - no appreciable gain. You might see this when using a very light cleaner like SwirlX on that same hard paint with a lot of defects. If you do see this (virtually no change whatsoever) after a couple of passes with a given product, then you probably need to step up to something more aggressive.

A third possible scenario, however, is where things can get a bit trickier to read. You have the same starting situation as outlined above, but when you do a test spot with a given product the swirls seem to be all gone, or almost all gone, but the paint looks hazy and dull, maybe even full of fine little tick marks. It isn't real pretty, that's for sure. And this is where it gets tricky. You've made a change in the appearance of the paint, that's immediately obvious. The swirls are gone, or almost all gone, so that's a positive. But that dull, hazy, lifeless finish overall is a step backward from what had been pretty glossy (although defect riddled) paint. How did that happen? Well, the paint is pretty easy to correct (what's often called "soft paint") because you removed the swirls and other defects easily. But it's also delicate, because that same process hazed the paint pretty badly - taking the underlying gloss and making it dull. So how do you correct that? Go more aggressive still? No, not at all. Quite the contrary, actually. What you did the first time around was so aggressive it hazed that delicate paint, right? What do you think more aggression will do? Whether you use a more aggressive liquid (M105 instead of UC) or a more aggressive pad (W7207 instead of W8207) odds are all you're going to do is make things worse.

As counter intuitive as it seems to a novice detailer, this is the time to go less aggressive. When you stop and think about it, that earlier process basically traded out a set of random, severe defects (swirls, scratches, etchings, water spots, etc) for a much more uniform set of finer defects (DA haze, tiny tick marks, etc). Removal of these very fine defects should be easily accomplished with a less aggressive process, not more aggressive. A less aggressive process, like M205 or Ultimate Polish on a finishing pad instead of a polishing pad, will remove that fine haze and small tick marks, restoring the high gloss that was there to start with, but with the more severe defects now gone thanks to your first cutting step.

[maxpower]

Re: 105 question ?

Michael,

I have a few light scratches and etched water spots on my rear-deck and hood. I have tried the Megs 5" MF system D300/301 and it worked great on the swirls but not the water spots. What is the next, more aggressive Megs,(or others) to use. paint is black C6

[SunnyD]

Re: 105 question ?

the problem im having is when i get paint with a lot of scratches and swirls every where the only thing the uc is doing is making the paint shine and make the swirls a little litgher and not doing much to the scratches im using it with a g110 speed 5 on a megs cutting pad ive tried the polishing pad also working a small area at a time with good pressure doing a few passes about 5 to be exact and im not getting far thats why im thinking of moving to 105

[Michael Stoops]

Re: 105 question ?

Michael,

I have a few light scratches and etched water spots on my rear-deck and hood. I have tried the Megs 5" MF system D300/301 and it worked great on the swirls but not the water spots. What is the next, more aggressive Megs,(or others) to use. paint is black C6

How much pressure are you using with the DA MF system? Especially on a G110v2 you can use a ton of pressure - so much so, in fact, that we've known of people burning through the paint with it. Yes, it can be that aggressive. When using a lot of pressure it's always a good idea to work up to that heavy pressure, checking surface temps as you go. You can get max cut out of the DA MF system by increasing pressure and/or slowing down your arm movements to a crawl. We're talking very slow movements here. If you can't get the water spot etching out with that technique, you probably need a rotary buffer to do so. But be warned - we've seen water spotting so badly etched that even a rotary with M105 on a wool pad still left some remnants behind. The next step would have been wet sanding that particular car (a C5 Corvette, by the way) but it was decided by the owner that he'd rather live with the very, very light marks.

the problem im having is when i get paint with a lot of scratches and swirls every where the only thing the uc is doing is making the paint shine and make the swirls a little litgher and not doing much to the scratches im using it with a g110 speed 5 on a megs cutting pad ive tried the polishing pad also working a small area at a time with good pressure doing a few passes about 5 to be exact and im not getting far thats why im thinking of moving to 105

If you're working small areas at a time with UC on speed 5, a lot of pressure and doing 5 full section passes, then it probably is time to step up to something more aggressive. M105 may be that next step, or the DA MF system, but we don't believe that's available in Canada just yet. When using M105 you may want to prime the pad with it and then use just a small amount of product for each section. And start with the polishing pad, not the cutting pad.

[PursuitSE]

Re: 105 question ?

Maybe working with a smaller pad, like 5,5" instead of 7" would help you cutting the swirls with your DA ? I've always got better results with 5,5".

Now that I've tried the D/A MF D300 and D301, I like this better than working with 105/205. Very easy to use and I get always great results.

[maxpower]

Re: 105 question ?

How much pressure are you using with the DA MF system? Especially on a G110v2 you can use a ton of pressure - so much so, in fact, that we've known of people burning through the paint with it. Yes, it can be that aggressive. When using a lot of pressure it's always a good idea to work up to that heavy pressure, checking surface temps as you go. You can get max cut out of the DA MF system by increasing pressure and/or slowing down your arm movements to a crawl. We're talking very slow movements here. If you can't get the water spot etching out with that technique, you probably need a rotary buffer to do so. But be warned - we've seen water spotting so badly etched that even a rotary with M105 on a wool pad still left some remnants behind. The next step would have been wet sanding that particular car (a C5 Corvette, by the way) but it was decided by the owner that he'd rather live with the very, very light marks.

I am using a PCXP, I would say I am using light/moderate pressure and slow to moderate arm speed. at some point ,with increasing pressue, will I actually stop the PC? It sounds like I need to do a very small test spot with increased pressure and very limited movement

[Michael Stoops]

Re: 105 question ?

I am using a PCXP, I would say I am using light/moderate pressure and slow to moderate arm speed. at some point ,with increasing pressue, will I actually stop the PC? It sounds like I need to do a very small test spot with increased pressure and very limited movement

Definitely increase your pressure, almost to the point of stopping the rotation of the pad. In fact, go ahead and apply that much pressure, then ease up just enough to get the pad rotating again. It will rotate quite slowly, but it will be rotating, and that's what you want.

[maxpower]

Re: 105 question ?

Definitely increase your pressure, almost to the point of stopping the rotation of the pad. In fact, go ahead and apply that much pressure, then ease up just enough to get the pad rotating again. It will rotate quite slowly, but it will be rotating, and that's what you want.

Will do, thanks for the help Michael. I will let you know how it goes.

[SunnyD]

Re: 105 question ?

I got the 105 lucky it's the d/a version can't wait to try it