Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

[felixfelicis]

Hi there,

Not sure if this is the correct forum to post in, but I'm hoping it is.

A week ago my boyfriend and I went to pick up a brand new 2011 Ford Fusion. Upon inspection of the car, we noticed several scratches in on the driver's side of the car and swirl marks in the paint all over the body of the car. We were upset, to say the least, and the "manager" then informs us that swirl marks come on all cars. I showed him several cars that had not yet been washed, all which were swirl free, and he then agreed to rectify the issue. He said it couldn't be done that day, but that we were to come back on Monday and they would get us a rental and fix the swirl marks.

We brought the car back yesterday and they sent it to an auto shop that customizes cars, gave us a rental, and sent us on our way. We picked it up today, but there are still swirl marks COVERING the body of the car. Most of the scratches are gone, but there are a few straight scratches going down the driver's side hood of the car. We called the dealership and there were no managers there for the day, so we were told to come in tomorrow to talk with a manager.

First off, I don't believe all cars come with swirl marks. Is this true and inevitable, and something we should just deal with? I tend to feel like, if I'm buying a new car, it should look new.

Second, if this isn't acceptable, is there something we suggest they do? I don't know much about cars, I just want it fixed, but I was thinking something along the lines of a new clear coat, or for them to give us a new car that does not have the scratches and swirls. This was brought to their attention before taking possession of the car, so I feel we deserve to have the situation rectified. Does anyone have any advice or any suggestions, or maybe I'm being too picky? Thanks so much for your help, so sorry if this is not the correct forum for posting.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

First off, welcome to MOL. Secondly, congrats on the Fusion... sorry to hear things got off to such a rough start with the car.

As per your questions, yes, most cars do come with swirls...but for the reason you mentioned: the dealers install them when "detailing" the car. It is possible but not likely to get a brand new car in perfect condition, and now that the damage is there the odds anyone at the dealer will rectify the situation rather than make it worse are slim to none.

As for fixes, you do not want a new clear coat (huge can of worms, and not worth it), and odds are the dealer will not supply a different car because then they would have to sell your car as used.

Your best bet is to push for the dealer to pay for a true professional detailer to remove the swirls. If they insist on having someone at the dealer do it, or someone they hire, simply ask to inspect an example of their work in full sun.

If the dealer refuses to help, let me know and send me a PM. I might be able to call in a favor at Ford.

[greg0303]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

As Mark said during dealer's new vehicle preparation process (washing/ waxing) swirls can inflicted almost all the time.

When I've got my new car three months ago I asked dealer not to touch any exterior/ interior, brought the car dirty home and washed, polished and waxed it by myself:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48934

Modern clear coat car paints are swirl sensitive.

[rst08tierney]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

like stated above, the quickie detail given to your new vehicle by the dealer ship was a car wash, most likely with a dirty wash mitt and towel dry. (with the towels most likely being used all day and stored on the ground)

I suggest taking the car to a professional of YOUR choice and having the dealer ship pick up the bill. Some of these vendors car dealer ships have to do their side work take advantage of the deep pockets of Ford, Chevy, Chrysler etc and do a half *** job knowing they will get paid top dollar for their time.

Buying "New" car these days seems to be a major hassle.

My last car I had a roof rack installed and someone dropped their drill down the side of my rear quarter. To make a long store short, 3 body shops later I decided to live with crummy re-spray on a new truck.

[G_S_DB]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

If you do get the dealer to agree to let you take it to a professional and they pick up the tab, I have heard really good things about a detailer in the LA area called the "Paint Whisperer".

I would give Joe (Superior Shone) a call or send him a message. He is a regular here on MOL and this way you KNOW you are getting the best!

http://www.superiorshine.com/index.html

[74 thing]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Have Joe at Superior Shine do the detail and make the dealer pick up the tab. There will be no swirls when Joe is done and it will be done right!!!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Read through this, it explains everything....

DISO = The Dealership Installed Swirl Option


There's also a thread on this forum where a member went through what you're going through and the dealership promised to re-buff the entire car and do it right the second time.

I this thread, I explained in detail how the first time they botched the buff-out they removed some of the precious, thin clear layer of paint. Maybe some super sleuth can find it and post the link?

Letting them buff it a second time will remove a little more of the precious thin layer of clear paint.

Here's the point... you didn't buy a brand new car to end up with a thin clear coat because the dealership doesn't care to use quality product and train their staff how to properly buff out a clear coat finish when so much great information on to do it right is available on YouTube and on forums like this.

Print this thread out and the one I linked to and tell them you no longer want the car. Ask them if they would accept the car?

Clear coats from the factory are thin, recklessly buffing one out removes paint. All the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint.

There's tons of great information in the Hot Topics forum, look on the homepage of this forum for the link, it's right in the middle, center of the forum homepage.

Best of luck...

[billd55]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Quote:
All the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint.

That is not correct.

URETHANE CLEAR-COATS:

Urethane Clear-coats are almost a different topic from pigmented urethanes and much of that is due to UV blocking. UV rays damage and fade coatings. It yellows and damages epoxies. One of the best blockers of UV rays is pigmented paint. The pigments block the UV, limiting their affect to the very surface only. Clear coatings, of course, have no pigments to block UV, hence, while they add additional gloss and ‘depth’ to a fine paint job, they are generally considered to be performance inferior to the pigment coatings they commonly go over.

There are UV blockers that can be added to clear 2-part urethanes, but surprisingly a very minimal ‘UV Package” is generally added to these clear urethanes (I’ve heard that automobile Clear-coats are an exception). The additives are expensive (about $8 per gallon) and since most clear urethanes are applied over pigmented urethanes the manufacturers tend to let the pigments in the bottom coating perform the UV blocking.

Source:

epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

[k3ith]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Clear coats from the factory are thin, recklessly buffing one out removes paint. All the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint.

Scary stuff man...so when I have to get really aggressive with 105 to remove water spots / etchings am I setting up for problems later on by removing too much clear?

[Merlin]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

I recently did a brand new BLACK Camaro with less than 50 miles on it.
I told the customer "Do not let the dealership wash your brand new car".
He made a special trip to the dealership BEFORE the car was delivered.
He told both the salesperson and the manager "Do not wash my car"!
He brought it to my house the next day. He had just paid 45k cash.

It was COVERED in fine scratches and swirls!
In the daylight it looked like the paint was trashed!

Interesting, a good amount of the car is plastic.
The plastic was the most difficult to polish out.
M105/M205/Ultimate Polish/PO85 and sealant.
It took me 16 hours to properly polish the car.
It came out flawless. Black it the best done right!

Dealerships do NOT know how or care about polishing paint.
If you like the car...Never let them touch the paint again!
Obviously they do not have a clue about polishing paint.
They sell you a car. They service the car. That's it!

Get it done right from a pro...give 'em the bill or return the car.

[djseafood]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Hi everyone,
Obviously new to the forum here and am inexperienced in the ways of detailing. I found this thread and signed up because I was looking for information regarding the exact same problem that happened to my wife's car. She bought a brand new Highlander and the dealer swirled it up good just like you all have explained. Additionally, it had some scratches down the passenger side from something that occurred in the short 30 miles before we test drove and bought the vehicle. I insisted when the dealer sent it to their preferred body shop (conveniently across the parking lot) that they have the body shop do a professional detail to remove the handy work of their detail guy the so kindly "prepped" the new car for us. I was told they color sanded the scratches out (which did fix the scratches) and then detailed the car. Well, long story short they made it MUCH worse! The area where they color sanded is so bad the paint is hazed. All up and down the passenger side on both doors, even where there were no scratches it looks like they just buffed the hell out of the paint.

A few questions I have are:
1) Was color sanding even the right approach or technique to fix scratches on a brand new car?
2) What is the correct method for fixing the swirls?
3) Do I have any real legal recourse at this point? The car is paid for (cash...thanks to her dear deceased mother) and registered in her name.

We have withheld taking the Toyota dealer survey in hopes to use that as some means of leverage. We are taking the car back down tomorrow after showing the manger once again that they screwed it up. He promised to "fix it" but didn't detail how it would be done. I'm scared now from reading these horror stories that they will just remove more of the paint in doing so and still screw it up. He insisted they would use the same body shop but promised it would be fixed.

I apologize for not taking the time to fully read up on this on your site but I'm a bit pressed for time. I know it can be considered rude to ask for so much help without using the resources already here and I appreciate very much any help that can be offered.

I also should mention that we foolishly purchased the Body Steel treatment and also got a clear bra put on, mainly for the warranties that come with them. What pisses me off is that these scratches and swirls were on before the application of the bra and body steel and I specificallly told them they needed to be fixed before these errors got sealed in.

Thank you so much to anyone who can assist. I will continue to read up on all of this tonight before we take the car back in tomorrow morning but I have a steep learning curve on this subject. I'm generally pretty good mechanically but this is more of an art! I feel like we don't have much recourse other than to let them try and fix it knowing that if they screw it up again all hell will break loose and they do not want us against them!

Best,
AJ

[Murr1525]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

1. Probably not.

2. Can you get some pics?

3. Not really.

best to see if you can get any pics, and we can go from there.

It maybe best, if it is real bad, to post an add in the Detailer Wanted area, and see if someone from on here is from your area. Then you could do the regular detailing after that. Otherwise, we can view the pics and see what helps you.

I have a feeling this will be best in a new thread though, perhaps one of the Mods will get us into a new one.

[djseafood]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Thanks for the reply Murr1525,

I don't think it was "too" bad, but definitely not right. The general swirls looked like fine spider webs all over the car and the passenger side where it was hazed up had that 3D holographic look to it.

We took it in this morning and insisted we go over to the body shop ourselves. The manager at Toyota was very accommodating and called up the manager at the body shop and told him to expect us and let us walk him through what needed to be taken care of. Once we got to talk to the actual guys doing the work we felt MUCH better. They manager was great and totally understood where we were coming from. He said it looked like the Toyota detail guy went over it with a dirty wash mitt. He also said they tend to rush things at Toyota and don't give it sufficient time to cure after they fix a scratch or detail it. He said when they color sand the scratches out they use 2500-3000 grit paper and wet sand. He admitted it knocks the clear coat down a bit but doesn't remove it and then they go back over it and buff it out. He believes that while the paint was still soft after the color sanding that the Toyota detailer hit it again when it got back to their lot and screwed it up again. Seems like it's just their protocol when a car comes back on the lot or before returning it to a customer to wash and buff it. Nice thought if they could do it correctly! It was also clear after talking to him that Toyota did not address our other concern areas with his shop or have him professionally detail it like we agreed to. They apparently took it back to Toyota to detail it...I mean, jack it all up again!

My wife just stopped by the detail shop after the manager called her to let her take a look at what he's done so far. She said she nearly hugged the guy it looked so great! She then called the manager at Toyota and told him to never let his people wash it or detail it or touch the exterior in any way :-D That's my girl!

Thanks again for the input and for letting me post my story here. I'll be coming back to this site to learn how to properly take care of her car in the future.

-AJ

[Murr1525]

Re: Swirl Marks in New Car Paint - Please Help

Hmm.. sanding doesnt make the paint softer...

But at any rate, as long as it looks good. Be sure to try to get it out in the sunlight before leaving.