new paint

[grpape]

Hey guys I got another question,
First, I just got the side panel on my truck bed done (three days ago), and it has a bunch of swirls. I was reading on the site that you can use #9 or step 2 on new paint. Is this true? The guys that painted the truck told me not to touch it (car wash suds or wax) for a month. Do any of you have other ideas of products that I could apply to make the finish look better?

aloha, Derrick

[travisdecpn]

You can use a polish like #80 speed glaze to eliminate the swirls, or #83 if you cannot remove them with a couple applications of #80. You should not use a sealant or wax for 30-60 days after the repaint though.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Derrikc,

The main reason painters give advice like this is because they know that chances are good if they can get you to just leave the finish alone, by itself it will hold up pretty well the first year.

Because they don't know you, (very well), your skill level and what kind products you're going to use, they hedge their bet, and tell you not to do anything hoping that by taking this extreme safety precaution, the finish will hold up and look good.

As to your questions, all Meguiar's polishes are safe for fresh paint. The M80 contains a synthetic polymer that provides a tad bit more protection over the others.

As far as the swirls go, if you want to remove them then have no fear, many products in our Professional Line are perfectly safe for use in body shop environments and on fresh paint. If the paint is indeed fresh fresh, then this would actually be the best time to polish them out before the paint becomes any harder.

For this, you could try the M80 Speed Glaze with our W-8006 foam polishing pad on a dual action polisher on around the 4.5 to 5.0 setting.

Mike

[grpape]

thanks Mike,
It's good to know that all the polish lines are okay with new paint. The problem I have, is that I don't own a PC just yet. Is it okay to use the 80 lines by hand, I know it says so, but would you or anyone reccomend something easier by hand. I have used the #9 by hand, and it worked quite well. I would like to try the 80, 82, or 83 line, but am a bit aprishensive with only my hands. Anyother advice or tips would be very appriciated!

aloha, Derrick

[travisdecpn]

#80 works great by hand and is more aggressive than #9 so your results will be better. #83 doesn't work well by hand as you are not able to fully diminish the abrasives without the heat and speed created by a machine.

[grpape]

thanks travis,
I think I'll go and get some 80 and try it out on a small area, then work on the whole truck. Do you think I should put a coat of color x before I applie the NXT? Any other plans of attack will be appriciated.

aloha, Derrick

p.s. man are my arms gonna kill after I'm do with my Titan!

[tinman2]

sorry for resurrecting but here goes:
the hood of my corolla was repainted recently and I have read that #80 is body shop safe right? Can I use #80 purely for protection since the hood is swirl-free as of today? How do I apply it? like a wax where you let the product haze/dry before removing? thanks

[grpape]

What I used was either #9 or Step 2. Both are body shop safe and let the gases escape. You also want to look at everyting you plan to put on the new paint (washes, detailer,etc). Anything containg wax will seal in the paint (you want to let it breath). I'm pretty sure someone else will chime in. If not, just start a new thread for help.

aloha, Derrick

p.s. you could use #80, but I believe it is harsher than the #9 (I think), and the rule of thumb is," use the least abrasive product first to see if it will get the job done".

[russell336]

My wife's mustang just came back from the shop on Friday, it rained right after I picked it up, I mean I didn't even get the door closed and the skies opened up . This is after a week of being in the shop and the weather being about as perfect as can be!
I called the body shop to see what I could use on it and I was told anything as long as it was not a sealant. He even said the Caranuba waxes are safe to use on it. I questioned that and he said the sun would end up burning the wax away after a couple of weeks anyways so it wouldn't be a problem.
I may go ahead and wax it with #26 this weekend as I believe it is a caranuba based wax and should be ok. Of course I will look at the label first to be sure.
I am assuming if it has any kind of synthetics that it would be best not to use it.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's a little catch-phrase I'm fond of using...

"Words mean things, just ask any lawyer"

Wax, synthetic, natural or a blend, no matter what word is used on the label to describe it, for example, Paint Protectant, or in the case of Zaino, they call their paint protectant a Polish, whatever.... if it's intended to coat over, bond to the paint and protect it from the things that would attack the finish if the attacking thing could come into direct contact with the surface are sealants, in that they are coating over and sealing the finish.

Meguiar's always recommends you follow your painters recommendations, but in this case it sounds like the painter knows more about prepping cars for application of paint than correctly working on paint after it has been applied.

Here's an article I wrote that addresses this topic in full... It can be found in the Information Station forum.

Paint Needs to Breathe

Paint Needs To Breathe

Words mean things, just ask any Lawyer. Floating around on the Internet, and discussed for decades among car enthusiasts is the myth that paint needs to breathe.

Or is it a myth?

It depends on how literal you read into the words. If you apply the common definition used for the word breath, then “No�, paint does not need to breathe. If however you take a moment to understand the idea that is being expressed with this word, then I think you’ll understand why the word breathe is used when someone says, or posts to the Internet that �Paint needs to breathe�.

The below is just my guestimation as to the story behind the theory or myth that paint needs to breathe. I may be wrong, but my years of working with both painters, detailers and serious car enthusiasts as well as teaching detailing classes makes me think that if I’m not dead on, I’m at least in the ball park. With that said, here my explanation of how the saying, “Paint needs to breathe� originated.

For the last 50 or so years, when a person would have their car painted, upon retrieving it from the painter, the painter would typically recommend that the owner wait for a period of time before applying a coat of wax or some type of paint sealant that seals the paint. The normal period of time that most painters recommend is anywhere from 30 to 60 days and sometimes longer, depending upon the painter. The reason for this waiting period is to allow the different solvents and other additives enough time to fully evaporate out of and off of the surface.

Wax and/or paint sealants, whether natural or synthetic, or a blend of both of these ingredients, seals the paint by coating over the surface and filling into any microscopic surface imperfections creating a barrier coating over the surface. This blocks, or inhibits these solvents from escaping through evaporation, or outgassing. Solvents also called thinners and reducers are used to thin the paint down so that it can be atomized into a spray when applied with a paint gun using compressed air.

When a customer arrives at a body shop or a dealership to pick up their car with its freshly applied paint, most painters will tell the customer to wait a certain number of days before applying wax, or paint sealant over their new paint job. If the customer agrees, then that’s probably as far as the discussion goes.

If the customer asks further questions as to why they must wait before applying a protective coating to their investment, then it is my belief that most painters would do their best to explain to the customer, in easy to understand terminology, so that the customer will understand and comply with his request. This is where I think the saying, paint needs to breathe, originated.

I don’t think most painters would try to explain that the solvents need to outgas in order for the paint to fully dry and harden, instead, I think they would use a more simple approach and merely tell the customer that their new paint needs to breathe.

The above fictional analogy is probably as accurate as any assumption as to how the theory that paint needs to breath was started. (I'm open to other theories however.)

People that understand the painting process understand that paint doesn’t literally need to breathe; they do understand that fresh paint needs to outgas. This means that for a period of time, the solvents and other carrying agents, which are used to dilute paint to a thin viscosity so that it can be sprayed out of a pressurized air sprayer, need to work their way out of the paint through the evaporation process, also referred to as outgassing.

Read the below two scenarios and then decide for yourself, which scenario sounds more plausible.

In an effort to explain to their customers why paint manufactures recommend waiting for at least 30 days to pass before applying a coating of wax or a paint sealant, the painter can,

• 1. Try to explain the outgassing process over and over again throughout their career.
  2. Use a simple analogy that the average person can understand without challenging the painter’s judgment or expertise.

My personal guess is the second option.

If the simple analogy works, it will accomplish the painter’s goal and allow the painter to get back to work, not spend his time explaining the painting process. The goal of course is to prevent the customer from sealing the paint with some type of wax or paint sealant until the paint has completely dried and the out-gassing process is completely over.

• * Paint does not need to breathe in the literal sense that you and I need to breathe as living human beings.
  * Paint does need to breathe in the sense that fresh paint needs to outgas.

Of course, in the last 50 years or so since World War II ended and the car crazy culture really revved up in America, (no pun intended), the result has been explosive growth in the collision repair and custom painting industries. It should be no surprise that the idea that paint needs to breathe has finally reached enough of a critical mass as to be the topic of discussion on numerous discussion forums as well as anywhere a couple of car enthusiasts gather to talk shop.

Depending on how literal you want to read into it, when someone states �Paint needs to breathe�, what they probably mean is that fresh paint needs to outgas, they probably just don’t know, or understand the term outgas, and/or they are confused like many people who have gone before them and are operating under the wrong idea… innocently.

A different, but related version of the above would be someone that applies the same idea that paint needs to breathe to the paint on a brand new car which is also false unless the new car has been painted within the last 30 to 90 days. Sometimes during shipping from the assembly plant to the dealership show room floor, new vehicles are damaged and need repair including repainting. If all the paint on the car is the factory original paint, then it was baked on at the factory as it traveled down the assembly line and was completely cured before it left the assembly plant and it is perfectly safe to apply a coating of waxy or a paint sealant. If the car has been repainted due to damage during transit, then the areas with fresh paint should not be sealed until the recommended waiting period has passed.

Well, this is my stab at the “Paint needs to breathe theory�.

Comments? Click here to post them to this article

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by tinman2
sorry for resurrecting but here goes:
the hood of my corolla was repainted recently and I have read that #80 is body shop safe right? Can I use #80 purely for protection since the hood is swirl-free as of today? How do I apply it? like a wax where you let the product haze/dry before removing? thanks

You can apply it by hand like a wax, but you don't need to let it dry, simply remove after applying it. It does contain a paintable polymer that offers a little protection without interfering with the outgassing process.

And yes, M80 is Body shop Safe.

[rusty bumper]

Hi Gary,

I skimmed over this thread before I have to leave.

I would not put any kind of wax or sealer over fresh paint....

# 80 is the best product for cleaning & protecting the paint until it cures.

It is a very good product indeed!

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by grpape
thanks travis,
I think I'll go and get some 80 and try it out on a small area, then work on the whole truck. Do you think I should put a coat of color x before I apply the NXT? Any other plans of attack will be appreciated.

aloha, Derrick

p.s. man are my arms gonna kill after I'm do with my Titan!

If you apply the M80 to the entire truck, you would see more benefit from applying two coats of NXT than a coat of ColorX followed by NXT.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by grpape
p.s. you could use #80, but I believe it is harsher than the #9 (I think), and the rule of thumb is," use the least abrasive product first to see if it will get the job done".

M80 is more aggressive, (not harsher), than M09 and you are correct, the rule of thumb that Meguiar's has been teaching for over 100 years is,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

That said, the M80 offers a little bit of protection to uncured paint whereas the M09 does not. Subtle difference, either product would be good to maintain the finish until full cure and you're ready to apply a wax.

[russell336]

well, I figured using the wax probably wasn't the best thing to do so I just used #80. I sure don't want to risk messing this thing up as it is the best it has looked in awhile. WHile it was always pretty much swirl free, it was full of rock chips, now no more rock chips or swirls.
I just hope I can keep it that way!

Thanks,

Gary