SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

[gto_don]

I may be asked to quote a "buffing" job on a '56 Chevy Nomad. Color is Grecian Gold and Calypso Cream. I will be looking at the car this coming week, but the owner has already told me that he just purchased this car and that the paint is quite faded. It is a driver so he understands that the current condition of the paint will factor into the end result.
It has been some time since I have detailed SS paint and even longer since I have attempted working paint this old.
I am looking for advice for what you may recommend for product/pad to do this job. I know the "test spot" routine and will certainly do that.
This I do know (considering):
1.) For 30 year old paint, I assume it will be thin, if not everywhere, certainly in spots. I don't have a thickness gauge (yet).

2.) I don't think I want to get anywhere close to this vehicle with a rotary. I am far from an expert with rotary, but have a good amount of hours with it.

3.) I am considering using something like M80 as this has more oil but less cut which I assume this paint will drink up.

4.) If not M80, possibly M83 which will have more cut and less oil.

5.) I have done two vehicles using the new MF pads and D300/301. I''m just not sure this combo will work with this vehicle. What is your opinion.

6.) Any recommendation for proper pad selection to start with?

Thanks everyone. I repsect this forum enough to pose these questions and know that I will get the best advice available.

Here is a picture of the car the owner sent to me. Hope it will help.

[Murr1525]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

Sure looks like a candiate for #80.

[sneek]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

+1 on using #80.

I think more oils would do wonders for that paint job. You can always more to #83 if you think you need more cut.

[Kubbie]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

I don''t know if this is cool by Meguiar's to link to another forum, but it's a long write up of #7 and it seems relevant to your Chevy job.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

Mike started this Lincoln with plenty of hand work with #7, then 80 on the rotary with a purple Kompressor, then DA work.

[gto_don]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

Thanks guys for you time and input. That is indeed a great article by Mike Phillips.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

I was at a local car show last Tuesday and saw the 1973 Lincoln for the first time in about a year and it still looks great... took a picture with my iphone... hang on...

Cool car by the way...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

I was wrong... but I'll see it again this Tuesday night and take a picture of it...

The article has also been published on AutoTraderClassic.com, I was told it is the longest how-to article they have ever published...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

We're inclined to think M80 with a W8207 polishing pad is the logical starting point with your test spots on this car, but then we had a Mercedes Benz 450SL show up to a recent TNOG event with original single stage paint.........

We used Ultimate Compound, twice, then M80 and then M07 by hand and topped it with M26. The improvement was dramatic to say the least. But then just for kicks we hit it with the DA Microfiber Correction System - one pass with D300/DMC5 and one pass with D301/DMF5. We actually got a better, and waaaay faster, result with the DA Microfiber System.

On that car.

This Chevy doesn't have the same paint, obviously.

Point being, since you've got both systems on hand, and since you're going to do a test spot or two, try it both ways and see which one works best on this car.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

[QUOTE=gto_don;464592]
I may be asked to quote a "buffing" job on a '56 Chevy Nomad. Color is Grecian Gold and Calypso Cream. I will be looking at the car this coming week, but the owner has already told me that he just purchased this car and that the paint is quite faded. It is a driver so he understands that the current condition of the paint will factor into the end result.
It has been some time since I have detailed SS paint and even longer since I have attempted working paint this old.

I am looking for advice for what you may recommend for product/pad to do this job. I know the "test spot" routine and will certainly do that.

Is this a metallic single stage paint? If not you're lucky. If so, then antique and original metallic single stage paint is the most difficult paint there is to restore because the aluminum flake "inside" the paint oxidizes and you can't polish out each flake individually so you can't remove the oxidation inside the paint, just the topical oxidation. This is all covered in my article on the topic.

This I do know (considering):

1.) For 30 year old paint, I assume it will be thin, if not everywhere, certainly in spots. I don't have a thickness gauge (yet).

I wouldn't automatically make that assumption, often times repaints are thicker than factory paint, especially a custom paint job.

Now whether or not a Caveman Detailer used a caveman compound to buff the paint leaving it thin after the painter did their job, that's another story... let's hope not but be very careful on places like the tops of the front fenders as this is were a Caveman Detailer will simply stand and over-buff because it's so easy to buff places like this... it's much harder to sit your but on the ground and buff the lower portions of the fenders or doors... no glory buffing these areas...

2.) I don't think I want to get anywhere close to this vehicle with a rotary. I am far from an expert with rotary, but have a good amount of hours with it.

With a small foam polishing pad like the Megs W-8006 it would probably work pretty well using M80 Speed Glaze or M105 or even M95... just be prepared to clean your pad often and you're going to be pulling a lot of dead, oxidized paint off no matter how you work on it.

3.) I am considering using something like M80 as this has more oil but less cut which I assume this paint will drink up.

M80 is like M07 with Steroids... in fact I just posted something similar on AGO

4.) If not M80, possibly M83 which will have more cut and less oil.

M83 is a great cleaner/polish but can be very hard to wipe-off in some environments and on some paint systems, like old, dry single stage. If you use it, clean your pad very often and always wipe off any spent product from the panel quickly and always before working the panel again.

5.) I have done two vehicles using the new MF pads and D300/301. I''m just not sure this combo will work with this vehicle. What is your opinion.

I've had good luck using the new compound and polish/wax on single stage paint, also with using them with foam polishing pads. Here's a 1959 Cadillac 2-door Coupe de Ville that had an older single stage paint job that I used the new DA system on...

I've experienced zero dusting with either of these products. This is the second single stage car I've buffed out using this new Tag Team, the first was this 1959 Cadillac 2-door Coupe de Ville and the paint really reacted well to these two products.

If you look closely, the paint on the passenger side fender is clear and glossy, that's because it was repainted with a basecoat/clearcoat system, the rest of the car has an older single stage paint that has dulled from oxidation and lack of any regular maintenance.

One of my goals was to maximize the gloss and clarity of the single stage paint surrounding the passenger fender so the car would have a uniform, clear, high gloss appearance.

I'll try to do the write-up for this car in the near future, this belonged to the Caddy King and I've heard he's since sold it.


Before
Passenger Fender = New Clearcoat
Entire Hood = Before Condition, Oxidized paint


After
Passenger Fender = New Clearcoat
Passenger Hood = Before Condition, Oxidized paint
Driver's side of hood = Buffed with Meguiar's DA system, clear and glossy now

6.) Any recommendation for proper pad selection to start with?

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

By hand start with 100% clean, soft quality terry cloth toweling. Check Martha Stewart hand towels and buy about a dozen.

By machine, foam polishing pads unless you're feeling confident then something more aggressive but honestly, a polishing pad and "time" should work well and be very safe.


That would be a very fun car to buff-out... it would make a great Extreme Makeover. Check out this thread... the before pictures of panels like the hood are very valuable... note the warning in the 5th paragraph...

The power in the after shots is created in the before shots

[gto_don]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

Thanks Mike and Mike for your input. You have really helped put my mind at ease about this opportunity. I go over to inspect/quote the car tomorrow. Wish we were closer to Mequiars. I think it would be a great candidate for one of the Thursday night or Saturday classes......

Thanks again.

[gto_don]

Re: SS-30 Year Old Paint Question/Advice

UPDATE: Went to view the car today. As I feared with paint 30+ yrs old, the primer was beginning to show through in numerous areas of the hood, top and top of the fenders. Gosh, what a nice piece of work even so. The owner was a great person to talk with and chat about the car. Bottom line is I told him I would not attempt a detail on this paint as I was afraid, even under the mildest method, that the paint was so thin that I would bring more/worse defects to it then correction and shine. The sides, as is always the case, would have been fine, but the upper portions were far to thin. The paint still looked good, but in my professional opinion was not up to par for a polish. He does want to repaint the same color sometime in the future. Until then, I recommended at least a sealant/light wax (suggested NXT 2.0) to protect what was left.
I thanked him for the opportunity. He kept thanking me for my honesty and would keep me in mind for future possibilities. I walked away feeling really, really good.
Thanks again for your input and recommendations...they indeed meant alot.