I hate single stage paint.

[Farmer]

So, I have this $400 Beater Mazda.

I brought the life back to the Red SS paint with M205 on a black LC CCS pad.

There were still swirls remaining, so I switched to a White LC CCS pad with M105... and burnt through...

Even with the burn, which was on a bodyline, swirls still remain.

I need some guidance on what to do next.

-Thanks

[greg0303]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

What polisher did you use and what speed did you use it at?

On older single stage paints M80 Speed Glaze and M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish work magic. It's always good to start slowly with less aggressive product first. M105 was way too aggressive.

If you burnt through and exposed the primer there's nothing which can be done besides repainting it.

[roushstage2]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

If the paint got burned through, 99% chance it'd have to be a rotary unless there was almost 0 paint left on the car. In either case, if the swirls are still there after M105, I'd have to err towards improper technique.

[Farmer]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

It was on the PC.

I was using the KBM. Like always.

Nothing has ever done like this. The truck is 20 years old and it's original paint.

[BillyJack]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

Anyone faced with restoration of single-stage paint should read this article/tutorial by Mike Phillips :

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

I consider it the consummate guide on SS paint restoration.
In typical Mike P form, it's a long comprehensive read, but your time invested in reading will pay dividends in time and effort saved once you plug in the polisher. Force-feeding multiple applications of M07 not only gives absolutely amazing results on its own, but makes any subsequent correction that might be necessary much easier and enables you to use a less aggressive compound. I know it sounds weird to polish first and buff next, but it works. If I find any scratches or deep swirls that won't come out easily with M80, then and only then will I switch pads and compounds to something more aggressive for that localized area. After that, it's back to M80. Most of the time, M80 finishes LSP-ready for me, but if not, I'll follow up with another oil-rich product such as M03 or M09. Here's a couple shots of my first effort on my tired, deteriorating 23 year old single-stage El Camino:
First a 50/50 (actually more like 60/40) view of my roof before polish and wax.


Then my "pride shot" after winning a first-place trophy at a local Chevy dealer's all-Chevy judged show.


Buy some M07 and M80 and do some reading- you'll be happy you did.

Bill

[greg0303]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

Then my "pride shot" after winning a first-place trophy at a local Chevy dealer's all-Chevy judged show.

Beautiful ride, Bill. Beautifully detailed as well.

I saw your Rockwell (aka Rocky) buffer in the other thread. Don't ever give it away.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

The biggest issue we see here is that after trying an extremely mild process (M205, black CCS pad) to a pretty aggressive process (M105, white CCS pad). Sure, there are more aggressive pads that you could have used with the M105 so you didn't go crazy, that's true. But the point is that there are a lot of possible options between M205/black and M105/white. When moving up in aggressiveness while trying to figure out a process that will accomplish your goals, it's best to take smaller steps.

M80, M83 or even Ultimate Compound would likely have been better choices. Obviously the good news here is that this vehicle is described as a $400 beater so we're figuring that this was a lesson learned at not too terrible a price.

We are curious, however, as to what speed you were running the M105/white pad at and how much pressure you used. Also, how old is this vehicle and are you the original owner? On older cars with original paint but an unknown history of paint care, it is likely that aggressive buffing has been done in the past, perhaps more than once, and the paint is already very thin before you started working on it.

When doing seminars at last week's Barrett-Jackson event we always made sure to point out that one of the greatest risks when using a DA buffer is those times when you're dealing with old, original paint and you don't know the history of it. Potential for going through the paint becomes very real in those cases, especially on sharp body lines like you experienced.

[Farmer]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

I am not the original owner, but my cousin has owned the truck since 30,000 miles.

It now has 207,xxx miles, original EVERYTHING.

I'm sure at some point it was machine polished.

What I am most confused by is the fact that I went through and there are still swirls present. I was on speed 5 with light pressure, pretty much just my hand on the top of the PCXP guiding it around. I don't care if I went through on this truck, the roof is almost completely white where the red has began to breakdown. I use this truck to try new methods and products.

The main reason I tried this is that I have an Acura Integra Type-R on the schedule for a Paint Restoration... I'm thinking M205 on black is pretty safe, but there is little correction ability in that combo apparently. Knowing all Type-R's are Single Stage, what would be the safest/easiest way to provide a 90-100% swirl free finish?

I feel like such a noob right now, haha. I've got base/clear DOWN. I've corrected a few VW's, and anyone that's done a VW can tell you, they're paint is HARD. Single stage paint is just completely kicking my tail.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

What I am most confused by is the fact that I went through and there are still swirls present. I was on speed 5 with light pressure, pretty much just my hand on the top of the PCXP guiding it around.

Are you saying that there are swirls still present immediately next to an area where you burned through the paint? If so, while it sounds odd, it may be that there's almost nothing left on the truck.

But running at speed 5 with just the weight of the tool isn't going to burn through healthy paint. In fact, it shouldn't do much of anything.

Something else to keep in mind here - if you're looking to compare your experience on this old single stage paint to what you'll experience on the much newer Integra Type-R, well, put that notion out of your head right now. What year is the Integra and are you 100% positive it's single stage paint? Even if it is single stage, it's new enough that it's most likely a modern type of catalyzed single stage paint, not just an old school lacquer paint job. In any event, just as with two brand spanking new cars of different makes and models, what you experience on one doesn't necessarily translate to the other. They can be different as night and day.

[Farmer]

Re: I hate single stage paint.

Yes, there are swirls still present immediately next to the area I burned through.

It's a 2000 Type-R, afaik, ALL Type-R's were single stage... something about saving weight...

I have the car scheduled for Sunday. My current plan is one pass with M07, at least one pass with M205 on a black CCS pad, and then a pass with M06 on blue. I may top that with some AutoGlym Hi-Def.

What is your recommendation as far as pad selection for M07? Should I just pick up M80 instead?