About Paint Hardness..

[Pro01]

hi all..warm greetings from Indonesia..

I'm planning to detail my dad's car..but i'm not sure what type of paint the car has..it's a white metallic 1997 Mercedez-Benz E series..do any of u guyz detailed a car like it b4??can u tell me the paint type and what works best with it??

also, i want to detail my uncle's car..it's a Toyota Alphard, Mercedez benz, Toyota Yaris and Mazda 2 hatchback..

your advice is deeply appreciated..

thx..

[TOGWT]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Really dense (hard) paint (DuPont's SupraShield™, PPG's Optech™ and CeramiClear™) will rarely haze; it’s usually very unresponsive but will show signs of improvement after a few passes

Some paints will finish with just a single pass; others will finish with a ‘haze’ that needs a ‘follow up’ with a less abrasive pad / polish combination
There are some paints that have a very low density (very soft) paint that allow swirls and micro marring, etc to be removed easily but it just appears dull and flat no matter what you do. A very gentle approach is called for in those cases, requiring a uniformly applied pressure across the pad / backing plate

Select a ‘typical’ 18 x 18 – inch area -one that represents the type of defects that you want to remove and starting with the least abrasive polish and / pad combination and then proceed until the defects are removed. This is the polish / pad combination you’ll need to use. Selecting the correct pad / polish combination for the vehicles paint / defects can take just as long as the paint correction process

[Pro01]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Thx 4 the info..

but, what i really want 2 ask is if anyone here ever detailed car like that before..

btw, just ran over my dad's car with DA and UC..i did a test spot with SwirlX, UC, and M105..i decided to use UC coz it remove swirls just like M105, but M105 has greater abrasive power..so i go with UC..the hood and roof did just fine..but the swirls in the rear area is reallllllly hard to remove..and there are TONS of swirls on the pillars near the rear door( not sure what they're called)..i ran UC on it but it won't do anything.. the swirls make me can't see any reflection..it look worse than this car..http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=48286
what should i do???i can see the swirls even there are no adequate light neaarby..it's kind of scratches..but it ain't scratches..

what should i do???

btw, did anyone ever detailed a Green Mazda 2??if so, how is the paint's characteristic..thx..

[greg0303]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Cars are manufactured in several different factories and even within the same assembly point there are several production lines. If it would be so easy to just create a worldwide database on all paints for everybody's reference we would have had it by now.

Unfortunately we still have to perform test spots and you did it discovering that Ultimate Compound gives you desired results. Those stubbborn swirls may require several passes with UC until fully removed.

What polisher and what pads are you using?

[Pro01]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

do i need to sand it to remove it??coz the swirls is really baaaaddd...if yes, then i'm in trouble coz i don't know how to sand..

i use G110v2 and 3M blue pad..i have meg's softbuff..would it work better??

[greg0303]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

I checked 3M buffing pads and blue one is defined as ultra fine polishing.

Try Meguiar's yellow polishing pad, it should be more aggressive, and use speed 5 on your DA, slow arm movement (1"-2"/ second) and apply down pressure on your polisher (but still maintain pad's rotation).

Several section passes may be needed. I would put sanding on hold for now.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Unfortunately it isn't so easy to make definitive statements about the hardness of the paint on a group of vehicles because there are so many variables. While things can vary with make and model, they can also vary with model year, plant of manufacture, etc. There are even cases where something went a bit off spec in the painting process during a brief period of time, and although the paint may look perfectly normal it won't necessarily respond to polishing the way it "normally" would.

It is very common to hear that BMW and Mercedes have extremely hard paint, but that is not always the case. Yes, we've seen some where that was indeed the case, but also others that were very easy to correct with fairly mild products and processes. Japanese cars (at least those built in Japan) tend to have slightly softer or more delicate paints, but even that can vary. We've seen plenty of Mazdas with paint that is extremely to correct, and some Hondas where the paint is so sensitive and delicate that correction can be frustrating. But the above doesn't apply to all Mazdas or all Hondas!

Further, when you read online where someone says a paint is hard or soft, what is that person's skill set and experience? If you're using a D/A buffer then you really need to dial in a process since technique is critical - move too quickly, use insufficient pressure, short cycle a product, select the wrong pad, run the tool at too low a speed or any combination of these and you can end with results far below your expectations.

No matter what you read online about how hard a given paint system is or isn't, it is always best practice to do a test spot on any car that you encounter for the first time. That test spot will tell you how that car reacts to your input with the products and processes you're using at the moment. That isn't to say that you should not seek guidance from others online, but rather that you should take others experiences in context and not assume that those experiences will always directly translate to yours. Yes, sometimes that will happen, but if you start to rely on that then you set yourself up for a fall later on, and you lose the experience of experimenting a bit with test spots to see not just what works, but what works best. And best for you.

[Pro01]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Really dense (hard) paint (DuPont's SupraShield™, PPG's Optech™ and CeramiClear™) will rarely haze; it’s usually very unresponsive but will show signs of improvement after a few passes

Some paints will finish with just a single pass; others will finish with a ‘haze’ that needs a ‘follow up’ with a less abrasive pad / polish combination
There are some paints that have a very low density (very soft) paint that allow swirls and micro marring, etc to be removed easily but it just appears dull and flat no matter what you do. A very gentle approach is called for in those cases, requiring a uniformly applied pressure across the pad / backing plate

Select a ‘typical’ 18 x 18 – inch area -one that represents the type of defects that you want to remove and starting with the least abrasive polish and / pad combination and then proceed until the defects are removed. This is the polish / pad combination you’ll need to use. Selecting the correct pad / polish combination for the vehicles paint / defects can take just as long as the paint correction process

I checked 3M buffing pads and blue one is defined as ultra fine polishing.

Try Meguiar's yellow polishing pad, it should be more aggressive, and use speed 5 on your DA, slow arm movement (1"-2"/ second) and apply down pressure on your polisher (but still maintain pad's rotation).

Several section passes may be needed. I would put sanding on hold for now.

i've used speed 5..but i move my arm rather quickly..hehehe...
anyway..i also have 3M yellow pad..dun't know kind what is it..
i hav meg's yellow pad too..but i was saving it for my car tomorrow..coz i hvn't finished detailing it yet....
i have 2 pad..but 1 has already worn off coz i use the wrong method the first time i use a DA..but i've learnt from my mistake..

also...can anyone tell me how to use DA on a curved area??do i need a smaller pad?coz the area is sort of like between other area that is higher than it..(dunno how else to describe it..sorry..)

i'll try to take a few pics tomorrow..but my blackberry can't capture swirls and my damn camera is broken..hahaha..i'll try it tomorrow..it's already 11 PM here..hahhaa...

Unfortunately it isn't so easy to make definitive statements about the hardness of the paint on a group of vehicles because there are so many variables. While things can vary with make and model, they can also vary with model year, plant of manufacture, etc. There are even cases where something went a bit off spec in the painting process during a brief period of time, and although the paint may look perfectly normal it won't necessarily respond to polishing the way it "normally" would.

It is very common to hear that BMW and Mercedes have extremely hard paint, but that is not always the case. Yes, we've seen some where that was indeed the case, but also others that were very easy to correct with fairly mild products and processes. Japanese cars (at least those built in Japan) tend to have slightly softer or more delicate paints, but even that can vary. We've seen plenty of Mazdas with paint that is extremely to correct, and some Hondas where the paint is so sensitive and delicate that correction can be frustrating. But the above doesn't apply to all Mazdas or all Hondas!

Further, when you read online where someone says a paint is hard or soft, what is that person's skill set and experience? If you're using a D/A buffer then you really need to dial in a process since technique is critical - move too quickly, use insufficient pressure, short cycle a product, select the wrong pad, run the tool at too low a speed or any combination of these and you can end with results far below your expectations.

No matter what you read online about how hard a given paint system is or isn't, it is always best practice to do a test spot on any car that you encounter for the first time. That test spot will tell you how that car reacts to your input with the products and processes you're using at the moment. That isn't to say that you should not seek guidance from others online, but rather that you should take others experiences in context and not assume that those experiences will always directly translate to yours. Yes, sometimes that will happen, but if you start to rely on that then you set yourself up for a fall later on, and you lose the experience of experimenting a bit with test spots to see not just what works, but what works best. And best for you.

thx 4 all the responds bro..

[Pro01]

Re: About Paint Hardness..

Really dense (hard) paint (DuPont's SupraShield™, PPG's Optech™ and CeramiClear™) will rarely haze; it’s usually very unresponsive but will show signs of improvement after a few passes

Some paints will finish with just a single pass; others will finish with a ‘haze’ that needs a ‘follow up’ with a less abrasive pad / polish combination
There are some paints that have a very low density (very soft) paint that allow swirls and micro marring, etc to be removed easily but it just appears dull and flat no matter what you do. A very gentle approach is called for in those cases, requiring a uniformly applied pressure across the pad / backing plate

Select a ‘typical’ 18 x 18 – inch area -one that represents the type of defects that you want to remove and starting with the least abrasive polish and / pad combination and then proceed until the defects are removed. This is the polish / pad combination you’ll need to use. Selecting the correct pad / polish combination for the vehicles paint / defects can take just as long as the paint correction process

I checked 3M buffing pads and blue one is defined as ultra fine polishing.

Try Meguiar's yellow polishing pad, it should be more aggressive, and use speed 5 on your DA, slow arm movement (1"-2"/ second) and apply down pressure on your polisher (but still maintain pad's rotation).

Several section passes may be needed. I would put sanding on hold for now.

i've used speed 5..but i move my arm rather quickly..hehehe...
anyway..i also have 3M yellow pad..dun't know kind what is it..
i hav meg's yellow pad too..but i was saving it for my car tomorrow..coz i hvn't finished detailing it yet....
i have 2 pad..but 1 has already worn off coz i use the wrong method the first time i use a DA..but i've learnt from my mistake..

also...can anyone tell me how to use DA on a curved area??do i need a smaller pad?coz the area is sort of like between other area that is higher than it..(dunno how else to describe it..sorry..)

i'll try to take a few pics tomorrow..but my blackberry can't capture swirls and my damn camera is broken..hahaha..i'll try it tomorrow..it's already 11 PM here..hahhaa...

Unfortunately it isn't so easy to make definitive statements about the hardness of the paint on a group of vehicles because there are so many variables. While things can vary with make and model, they can also vary with model year, plant of manufacture, etc. There are even cases where something went a bit off spec in the painting process during a brief period of time, and although the paint may look perfectly normal it won't necessarily respond to polishing the way it "normally" would.

It is very common to hear that BMW and Mercedes have extremely hard paint, but that is not always the case. Yes, we've seen some where that was indeed the case, but also others that were very easy to correct with fairly mild products and processes. Japanese cars (at least those built in Japan) tend to have slightly softer or more delicate paints, but even that can vary. We've seen plenty of Mazdas with paint that is extremely to correct, and some Hondas where the paint is so sensitive and delicate that correction can be frustrating. But the above doesn't apply to all Mazdas or all Hondas!

Further, when you read online where someone says a paint is hard or soft, what is that person's skill set and experience? If you're using a D/A buffer then you really need to dial in a process since technique is critical - move too quickly, use insufficient pressure, short cycle a product, select the wrong pad, run the tool at too low a speed or any combination of these and you can end with results far below your expectations.

No matter what you read online about how hard a given paint system is or isn't, it is always best practice to do a test spot on any car that you encounter for the first time. That test spot will tell you how that car reacts to your input with the products and processes you're using at the moment. That isn't to say that you should not seek guidance from others online, but rather that you should take others experiences in context and not assume that those experiences will always directly translate to yours. Yes, sometimes that will happen, but if you start to rely on that then you set yourself up for a fall later on, and you lose the experience of experimenting a bit with test spots to see not just what works, but what works best. And best for you.

thx 4 all the responds bro..