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"traditional - new world" advice

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  • #1

    "traditional - new world" advice

    Once again I'm seeking some sage advice. I have looked over the next car on my dance card and it is very swirled up and even has some damage from particulates imbedded in the clay the owner attempted use.

    I'm debating spending $$ to get one of the Microfiber System starter kits.

    Should I stick with the "traditional" techniques I've been learning and the products I have on hand or purchase the new system and perhaps save some time and frustration, but start learning new.

    Keeping in mind I generate no revenue from detailing and the owner has given me all the time I need to correct the car, what would you suggest "traditional" or "new world" techniques??

    Thanks,

    "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    David
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: "traditional - new world" advice

    David, it's darn near impossible to assess this car with the information available. What kind of car is it?
    What year?
    What is the expectation of the owner?

    Keep in mind that the number of defects is not as important as the number of defects. It's sort of a quantity vs quality issue. Let's assume all defects are of similar depth - whether the paint is 5% covered in these defects or 75% covered in them, the same process and technique will be required to remove them. Of course, the 75% covered finish could easily be hiding some more severe RIDS, and you may need something more aggressive to combat those, but otherwise the number of defects isn't really all that important. Leveling that paint is leveling that paint - it's not like you're just working on the individual little scratch and nothing else.
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: "traditional - new world" advice

      Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post
      David, it's darn near impossible to assess this car with the information available. What kind of car is it?
      What year?
      What is the expectation of the owner?

      Keep in mind that the number of defects is not as important as the number of defects. It's sort of a quantity vs quality issue. Let's assume all defects are of similar depth - whether the paint is 5% covered in these defects or 75% covered in them, the same process and technique will be required to remove them. Of course, the 75% covered finish could easily be hiding some more severe RIDS, and you may need something more aggressive to combat those, but otherwise the number of defects isn't really all that important. Leveling that paint is leveling that paint - it's not like you're just working on the individual little scratch and nothing else.
      Michael, I'm taking pictures tomorrow, but I believe the car is a black, 1997 Camaro. The car has been autographed by a NASCAR driver, therefore I believe the owner has high expectations. However, I believe my expectations are higher. I think each one car I do should be done better than the last, as I believe my name becomes associated with each vehicle I touch. Even if it is a very small circle of folks that know that name.

      In my brief examination, it is 75% or greater swirled up (poor washing or tunnel washing, no buffer trails), with my biggest concern being the damage done by the impure clay.

      I believe I understand your comments, "leveling that paint is leveling that paint". The Microfiber System has opened up a new world and many talented people have created phenomenal results. Results I may, with my currently limited skill set, may not be able to obtain. Perhaps it is best to stick with what I know, until I can get a practice hood to learn the Microfiber System.

      "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      David

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: "traditional - new world" advice

        Having played around with a few of these 4th gen F-bodies we've found the paint to be pretty forgiving and easy to work on. Of course, simply mentioning that is probably a bad omen and you'll get one with paint completely different!!

        We would suggest doing your typical test spot using what you have, and what you know. Since it seems you have the great luxury of time with this one, that test spot(s) will give you a chance to see if you really need to step into something new or if you can achieve your desired result, and keep pushing your skill set, with what you already have. From the sounds of it, the owner wouldn't mind one little bit if you showed him a test spot that he thought looked fantastic, but you knew could be taken even further - once you got your hands on something a bit different. That might be a problem if this were a daily driver - running around with a "test spot" on the hood! - but that's not the case here, is it?
        Michael Stoops
        Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

        Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: "traditional - new world" advice

          Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post
          Having played around with a few of these 4th gen F-bodies we've found the paint to be pretty forgiving and easy to work on. Of course, simply mentioning that is probably a bad omen and you'll get one with paint completely different!!
          ...
          That paragraph made me knock on wood!!

          Thank you for your comments. I see IPA wipe downs in my future using "traditional", but well proven methods. This does sound like an excellent opportunity for some good 50/50 photos.

          "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          David

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: "traditional - new world" advice

            Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post

            Keep in mind that the number of defects is not as important as the number of defects.
            I think I need another coffee and mull this one over.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: "traditional - new world" advice

              Originally posted by Blueline View Post
              I think I need another coffee and mull this one over.
              He likes to be redundant with me to get it through my thick skull.

              "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              David

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: "traditional - new world" advice

                The decision is to go traditional and the process started today. Here are a couple pre-wash photos.
                I'll post photos in the proper thread when project completed.


                Vehicle in question. Prior to washing. Nice reflections even before starting.




                Scratches from improper clay-bar action from a previous owner.




                More damage from improper clay-bar usage.


                "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                David

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: "traditional - new world" advice

                  Ooh nasty!

                  Good idea sticking with the methods you know.

                  ...Nothing M105 won't fix!!
                  Originally posted by Blueline
                  I own a silver vehicle and a black vehicle owns me. The black one demands attention, washing, detailing, waxing and an occasional dinner out at a nice restaurant. The silver one demands nothing and it looks just fine. I think the black vehicle is taking advantage of me, and the silver car is more my style. We can go out for a drive without her makeup and she looks fine. If I want to take the black one out, it is three or four hours in the "bathroom" to get ready.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: "traditional - new world" advice

                    Originally posted by Blueline View Post
                    I think I need another coffee and mull this one over.
                    Yes, and I need to have a coffee first before I start posting!!


                    That should read ...
                    Keep in mind that the number of defects is not as important as the severity of defects.

                    To reiterate - it is easier to remove a very large number of very fine defects than it is to remove a smaller number of severe defects. Assuming you're buffing out the entire panel, if very fine defects cover 60% of the surface they require no more work to remove than if they only covered 10% of the surface. It would certainly look a lot worse, but the same amount of "leveling" would take place regardless.
                    Michael Stoops
                    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: "traditional - new world" advice

                      Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post
                      Yes, and I need to have a coffee first before I start posting!!


                      That should read ...
                      Keep in mind that the number of defects is not as important as the severity of defects.

                      To reiterate - it is easier to remove a very large number of very fine defects than it is to remove a smaller number of severe defects. Assuming you're buffing out the entire panel, if very fine defects cover 60% of the surface they require no more work to remove than if they only covered 10% of the surface. It would certainly look a lot worse, but the same amount of "leveling" would take place regardless.
                      Lol, when I first read your first post I had to read it 3 times to figure this is what your meant and that with just having had coffee.
                      Jesse

                      2009-2014 Meguiar's/Car Crazy SEMA Team
                      www.ShineTechAutoDetail.com
                      Facebook www.detailing.com

                      Comment

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