DA versus rotary New Car

[RaskyR1]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

Looks amazing. SO to be clear, try and stick with a DA, 105 and a more aggressive pad, before moving to the rotary route?

Yes, stick with the DA as it's a much safer tool. M105 and a Surbuf pad can do some serious correction, but I'd also suggest trying the M105 on your orange pad first, while reducing the work area size and increase pressure with slow arm movement. With proper technique that combo should remove most paint defects. I honestly doubt you will need the Surbuf pads, but they would be a lot better than you taking a rotary to your new car.

Here is a good read on the Surbuf's

http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=294

[TJPark01]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

@RaskyR1
I've tried the Lake Country orange light cutting pad and 105 and was pretty aggressive with it, and it's didn't do much. What about the Lake Country Yellow Foam Cutting Pad or Purple Foamed Wool Pad on the DA? Is the latter like trying to cut butter with a scalpel?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

We don't think you should need to step into a rotary here, at least not quite yet. BMW paint is all over the map; some is crazy hard while some other is actually very easy to work on. Forum member smack has a new black 3 Series in Las Vegas and he managed to get a darn near flawless finish using just SwirlX and a W8207 pad on a D/A, which tells us his paint isn't hard at all. And regardless of base color, the clear coat is what you're dealing with and unless they're shooting different clears over different base coats, in theory there shouldn't be any difference in a given factory.

We've also had a new 1 Series in the garage that corrected very easily, so not all BMW paint is hard. That said, yours very well could be!!!

The Lake Country orange cutting pad is somewhere between our yellow polishing and burgundy cutting pad. Using that with Ultimate Compound on speed 5 and almost enough pressure to stop the pad from rotating should do the trick. Keep in mind you want to stay within that 2' x 2' max area, and maybe even less as Jesse mentioned. Move the tool slowly over the area - very slowly, give it some dwell time - and work in overlapping strokes. Tape off a test section like we did in class as that will give you a good, hard line to better compare the before and after areas.

If all else fails, before dropping big bucks on a rotary and having to go through the learning process with that tool (which you really don't want to do on this car!!!!), wait for our new DA Microfiber System to come out (which is going to be really, really soon now - honest!). That system loves hard paint and will get you going very quickly with virtually no learning curve to speak of, and virtually no risk for damaging anything.

But give the above high pressure, slow movement process a shot first.

[TJPark01]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

@Michael Stoops
I've done the process with the LC orange cutting pad and UC, with speed 5 and, but not with the pressure, as I've been conditioned to let the machine do the work for me. I'll try the technique you mentioned and get back to you.
What about the Meguiars burgandy W-7006 cutting pad and UC or 105, is that too much?

[rapport25]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

wait for our new DA Microfiber System to come out (which is going to be really, really soon now - honest!). That system loves hard paint and will get you going very quickly with virtually no learning curve to speak of, and virtually no risk for damaging anything.

But give the above high pressure, slow movement process a shot first.

Mr Stoops I have heard about this what month will it land in the UK? It will save me a lot of time on the cars I detail. Already have 10 to detail this year roll on the warmer weather

Rappy

[RaskyR1]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

@Michael Stoops
I've done the process with the LC orange cutting pad and UC, with speed 5 and, but not with the pressure, as I've been conditioned to let the machine do the work for me. I'll try the technique you mentioned and get back to you.
What about the Meguiars burgandy W-7006 cutting pad and UC or 105, is that too much?

As Mike mentioned the burgundy and orange pad are close in cutting ability, and should work just as well as what you have now.

While it's best to normally stay within Meguiars recommendations, sometimes you just need to tweak the process a little.

Speed 6, HEAVY pressure (pad should be rotating about 1-4 revolutions per second), small work area, and slow arm movement (1-2" per second). Try doing a test section with that process and let us know how it works.


+1 on the MF system too.

@RaskyR1
I've tried the Lake Country orange light cutting pad and 105 and was pretty aggressive with it, and it's didn't do much. What about the Lake Country Yellow Foam Cutting Pad or Purple Foamed Wool Pad on the DA? Is the latter like trying to cut butter with a scalpel?

I try to stay away form the yellow LC as they can micro marr the heck out some paints. The PFW pads are great but best used with a rotary.

[RaskyR1]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

A little off topic, but how do you like your Genesis? I see they are coming out with a new motor for it in 2012

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

@Michael Stoops
I've done the process with the LC orange cutting pad and UC, with speed 5 and, but not with the pressure, as I've been conditioned to let the machine do the work for me. I'll try the technique you mentioned and get back to you.
What about the Meguiars burgandy W-7006 cutting pad and UC or 105, is that too much?

If you haven't tried using pressure yet, by all means do so. It can make all the difference in the world. With all due respect to Rasky (who's talents are greatly admired and respected around these parts) we would suggest you hold off on speed 6, or the W7xxx cutting pad, or M105 for now. There are downsides to using any of these:

Speed 6, with prolonged use, can generate a lot of heat on the back of the pad and start to break down the adhesive on the hook & loop backing. It can even start to break down the foam itself. We've seen this with our pads, Lake Country, and others. Plenty of evidence on this and other forums.

The W7xxx cutting pad is very aggressive and when used with a DA has a high probability of hazing the paint. Not that big of a deal if you know it going in, but then you have to go back over everything with a less aggressive pad to clean up the haze.

M105, although tweaked a bit for better usability on a DA, is still more suited to rotary use. It will provide more cut than UC but at the cost of a much shorter buffing cycle, and a lot more dust. A lot more.

The amount of cut gained from using pressure compared to just letting the tool do the work will likely surprise the heck out of you. Do a test spot first, but apply enough downward pressure directly over the pad (you want the pad as flat as possible against the paint) to just about stop the rotation, then ease up just a bit. Sometimes making little hash marks on the back of the backing plate with a Sharpie, or little strips of masking tape, will make it easier to see the pad rotating. Now keep in mind, it's not going to be rotating fast at all doing things this way. Quite the contrary; you'll see a very slow but steady rotation of the pad and that's all. But that's fine - discover that sweet spot and stay in it.

Mr Stoops I have heard about this what month will it land in the UK? It will save me a lot of time on the cars I detail. Already have 10 to detail this year roll on the warmer weather

Rappy

We've got a major announcement coming next week on the D/A Microfiber System, but when it might arrive in the land of tea and crumpets (and Top Gear) is not yet known. Sorry.

[RaskyR1]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

If you haven't tried using pressure yet, by all means do so. It can make all the difference in the world. With all due respect to Rasky (who's talents are greatly admired and respected around these parts) we would suggest you hold off on speed 6, or the W7xxx cutting pad, or M105 for now. There are downsides to using any of these:

Speed 6, with prolonged use, can generate a lot of heat on the back of the pad and start to break down the adhesive on the hook & loop backing. It can even start to break down the foam itself. We've seen this with our pads, Lake Country, and others. Plenty of evidence on this and other forums.

The W7xxx cutting pad is very aggressive and when used with a DA has a high probability of hazing the paint. Not that big of a deal if you know it going in, but then you have to go back over everything with a less aggressive pad to clean up the haze.

M105, although tweaked a bit for better usability on a DA, is still more suited to rotary use. It will provide more cut than UC but at the cost of a much shorter buffing cycle, and a lot more dust. A lot more.

The amount of cut gained from using pressure compared to just letting the tool do the work will likely surprise the heck out of you. Do a test spot first, but apply enough downward pressure directly over the pad (you want the pad as flat as possible against the paint) to just about stop the rotation, then ease up just a bit. Sometimes making little hash marks on the back of the backing plate with a Sharpie, or little strips of masking tape, will make it easier to see the pad rotating. Now keep in mind, it's not going to be rotating fast at all doing things this way. Quite the contrary; you'll see a very slow but steady rotation of the pad and that's all. But that's fine - discover that sweet spot and stay in it.

I have been known to smoke a foam pad or two!

[Hemin8r]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

I have been known to smoke a foam pad or two!

lol, yeah that's always interesting to see.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

I have been known to smoke a foam pad or two!

We appreciate the honesty (hence the admiration and respect mentioned above) but we'd rather not lead someone new to machine polishing down that path!! If he wants to experiment a bit once he's got some experience under his belt, that's his decision. But for now, we just don't think he needs to get that aggressive.

[RaskyR1]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

We appreciate the honesty (hence the admiration and respect mentioned above) but we'd rather not lead someone new to machine polishing down that path!! If he wants to experiment a bit once he's got some experience under his belt, that's his decision. But for now, we just don't think he needs to get that aggressive.

Understood.

[smack]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

@Michael Stoops
I've done the process with the LC orange cutting pad and UC, with speed 5 and, but not with the pressure, as I've been conditioned to let the machine do the work for me. I'll try the technique you mentioned and get back to you.
What about the Meguiars burgandy W-7006 cutting pad and UC or 105, is that too much?

First off, Beautiful car you have there. Now on to business. I cant even fathom the idea of that car needing anymore work than UC, polishing pad, speed 5.5, with moderate to heavy pressure, and working in an area about the size of a Meguiars Microfiber. That surely has to take care of 100% of the problems from what you have described. Please let us know before you try anything more aggressive than that.

[TJPark01]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

First off, Beautiful car you have there. Now on to business. I cant even fathom the idea of that car needing anymore work than UC, polishing pad, speed 5.5, with moderate to heavy pressure, and working in an area about the size of a Meguiars Microfiber. That surely has to take care of 100% of the problems from what you have described. Please let us know before you try anything more aggressive than that.

Thanks, really like the car, and I want to make sure to get this right. I've used a rotary before but not on this car. What I guess I'm trying to figure out is:whether to be more aggressive with the DA:
orange cutting pad and UC using 5 and pressure.
or
Try a polishing pad and 205 with the rotary.

[smack]

Re: DA versus rotary New Car

Use the D/A first for sure. Also start with a polishing pad with UC and see if that gets your desired reults. Remember use the least aggressive combo to get the job done. I wouldnt use a rotory at all. Thats way to aggressive for what needs to be done.