Cannot figure out what these spots are

[spottycar]

Recently I noticed my car had a ton of these spots on it. I don't know what they are and haven't been able to find anything on the net that looks like them. I haven't done anything to get rid of them yet, except wash my car with soap and water. Here are the characteristics of the spots:

-I cannot feel them at all when I run my fingers over them.
-They do not rub off with my finger, or my nail.
-They only appear to be on surfaces that are flat, like the trunk, the roof, and especially the hood. There aren't very many at all on the sides of the car.
-They are not raised at all, and none have yet to blister
-If I rub my finger over them, the trail left by my finger goes right over them, so they seem to be not on the surface of the paint.
-They obviously don't wash off with soap or water

My biggest concern is that it's clear coat damage, though I've never seen clear coat damage that looks like that in any of the pictures I've seen of clear coat damage. Could they be acid etchings? Some crazy sort of water spot that I haven't heard of? Is is possible this is the very very beginning of clear coat damage/failure? Any idea's? These spots are really really bothering me. What do you think would get rid of them, if that's even possible.

Here are some pictures.













So what do you think? Please tell me it isn't clear coat damage

[spottycar]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

Any one?

[Flash Gordon]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

If it is as you state, my guess would be clear coat failure w/ a mix of scratches

I could be wrong though

[therdrman]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

i am going to say. 1. lots of swirls. can be fixed with swirl X. and it appears to be hard water spots and can be fixed with any cleaner wax (if your waxing) but if you wash it it should come out no problem. if not maybe UC

[Andy M.]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

I don't think it is CC failure. It looks like water etching and or etching from bird droppings. Lots of swirls and scratches too. You are in the right place to learn how to repair the damage.

Andy M.

[spottycar]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

But is it possible for etched water spots to be so deep into the paint that they won't ever wash out, and that you can't change their appearance by scratching them with your finger nail? My biggest concern (and the reason I'm so inclined to believe it's Clear Coat Failure) is that the spots appear to be under the most exterior layer of clear. Or at least under something. This is why scratches and swirls appear over top of the spots, and don't actually collide with the spots. Imagine the outer most layer of the paint is a layer of ice, and these spots are under the ice. No matter how much you manipulate the exterior of the car, you just can't get to those spots. That's the best way I can think to describe it. And I'm worried that the only kind of spots that would be underneathe a layer of clear like that, are spots caused by clear coat failure of some kind.

[spottycar]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

?

[prbrianpr]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

Try polishing the car before saying that it is clear coat failure. Try UC in a small area and check if waterspots go and swirls too. If swirls go and the spots are still in here then is a clear coat failure. My grandmother car have a cc failure or I think the paint inside the cc, have spots too but a lot worse.I polish it a little and get a glossy finish, still the spots is in here...So, glossy spots.

[Andy M.]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

Maybe we are not seeing something in your pictures that you are. Take a look here and compare what you have going on to some of the pictures here.
The Clearcoat Failure Photo Archive


Andy

[spottycar]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

No you're seeing everything, I just thought for sure that because the spots seem to be under all those scratches (the same way text on a poster can be under a layer of lamination), that they couldn't be anything but clear coat failure. I can't scratch them off with my finger nail because my finger nail won't actually make contact with them because they are under the most exterior portion of the finish. If I put water on them, the water will bead on the top of them, but won't ever touch them. It would look like this from the side in a bi-section:

X = spot
--- = air sitting on the very top of the panel
```= most exterior layer of body panel
# = actual paint
o = water bead


-----o---------o-------o--------------o----------o------------o----
x ````````````x``````` `x```` x `````````x```` x ````````````x
################################################

The water beads sit on top of the ``` but will not penetrate that layer to the x's beneath. That's the best way I can describe the location of these spots on the car. I thought the only thing that could cause spots to appear with that sort of location was clear coat failure. Is it possible that water etchings can be so deep on the car that my finger nail scratches won't reach through to them?

The water will just sit on top

[STG]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

I need bigger photos to form an opinion.

[Andy M.]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

From what I see in the pictures......... It is possible that in the third pic, the top spot "could" be the beginning of CC failure. But all the rest look like etching. Not sure what is in your arsenal, but a good claying and some scratch X or Ultimate compound should clear some of the other stuff up so we can get a clearer picture of what you have going on if that doesn't solve the problem.

Andy M.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

You can't feel these water spots because they are incredibly shallow, microscopically so. Same with the fine swirl marks. You also can't remove these by washing, or by scratching with your fingernail, because they are not deposits left behind by the water but rather etchings caused by the minerals and other material left behind when the water evaporated. Those deposits do the damage before they themselves are washed away. Obviously you can't simply wash away the damage once it's done, even if you remove the material that caused the damage.

In a best case scenario you'll see fresh water spots (literally the minerals left behind when the water evaporates) and a little Quik Detailer will easily remove them before any damage can be done. This commonly happens immediately after washing the car when a little water trickles out from behind the window seals, emblems, lights, etc.

Depending on how hard the water is, how long you let it sit on the paint, how hot the ambient air is, how delicate the paint is, etc will ultimately determine if any real damage is done, and how bad that damage is. We've seen cars exposed to reclaimed sprinkler water that then sat out in the California sun for a few days - the depth to which the etching occurred was frightening and nothing would fix it except for rotary buffing (and maybe even a bit of wet sanding).

Of course water spots can be anything in between the two scenarios we've outlined above. From the looks of it, yours are closer to the former than the latter - which is a very good thing. Technically they are classed as below surface defects, as are the swirl marks. But they are not far below the surface at all so removal should be fairly straightforward.

We would suggest you read through the 5 Step Paint Care Cycle for more in depth info on how to correct this, as well as the Quik Tips Series on removing swirls.

[prbrianpr]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

The waterspots here are very frequent, not only by waching a car, also for light rain. When I get my car and start waxing it, the waterspot are problem of the past. Still have spots in the glass that i will need to polish, but the paint after a few hand polishes (before I enter to MOL) the waterspots in the paint gone. Also new waterspots are easily removed when the car is waxed, in short, I can take out almost all the dirt with only the hose, then procced to washing a 90% less dirt in the car included waterspots. I think that with a polish and a waxing maintenance for life you are rid of a lot of paint problems. When I wax the car last time, my neightbor thought that the car was painted XD. Still not used the M105/205 polish

[spottycar]

Re: Cannot figure out what these spots are

Thank god, you guys don't know how happy I am to hear that they're probably just etched water spots... I was thinking I would have to repaint my baby, and a laguna seca blue M3 would not be cheap to repaint