aggressive???

[Pro01]

hi guyz..

how can u tell if a product is too aggressive???most of the time i saw people said to do the test spot to see if it's too aggressive..how can i tell if it's aggressive or not??

thx a lot..

[Shawn T.]

Re: aggressive???

If it id too aggressive you will see hazing in the paint. The paint will have very small scratches in it due to the aggressiveness of the product.

[Pro01]

Re: aggressive???

thx...

btw,do u hav any picture of it when it's too aggressive??thx..

[Murr1525]

Re: aggressive???

Not sure if I have seen pics on here really of it.

Working by hand, the only concern would be like mentioned above, a strong product, esp with a strong applicator like terry, leaving some marring.

By machine, you can get a bit more damaging, picking a product that is way to strong for the situation.

Working by hand with a smooth foam applicator, I dont think you will have much trouble with UC. You can apply it more strongly or gently as needed also.

[ANeat]

Re: aggressive???

I think he idea is to start with the "least" aggressive approach and see if it gets the ammount of correction youre looking for.

If not then you move to a more aggressive process

[Pro01]

Re: aggressive???

then..what if i use UC and it's too aggressive and it hazed my paint...then what should i do to fix that??

thx..

[mattya802]

Re: aggressive???

SwirlX or ColorX should fix the hazing.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: aggressive???

In theory you want to use the least aggressive method/product to get the job done. The reasoning behind this is so that you don't remove any more paint than you absolutely have to in order to remove the defect - keeping in mind that in order to remove any below surface defect (swirls, fine scratches, etchings, etc) you have to remove at least some paint.

In practice, however, it can be a bit tricky to know just which product to use, and the paint you're working on plays a very large role in this process. But how do you know if your paint is soft or hard and whether you need something as mild as SwirlX or as aggressive as M105? That's what a test spot is all about.
Now, some people take the "least aggressive" approach to a bit of an extreme. In the vast majority of cases, if you're working by hand or with a D/A, Ultimate Compound is a great starting point. But it's just that - a starting point, the point where you do your initial test spot. Where the "least aggressive" approach really comes into very serious play is when you're dealing with processes that can remove a lot of paint, like wet sanding and rotary compounding.

OK, so let's say you're just looking to remove some swirls from your paint. The paint is in good shape other than these swirls, and you just want to bring up maximum gloss and reflections. Forums are a great place to get an idea about the potential hardness or softness of your paint, but you need to do some serious research if you're going to take this approach. Case in point - it is commonly stated on forums that BMWs have very, very hard paint. While that is true about some of them, it is certainly not true about all of them. So just because someone needed a very aggressive approach to correct his BMW doesn't mean you'll need the same level of aggressiveness if you have a different model (a 3 Series vs an X5, for example). In this situation what you read on the web may clear things up for you, or it may just confuse you more. We see this with other brands too - Honda is known for having relatively soft paint, but some models like the late model Civics and Fits have incredibly soft and delicate paint.

So, what's too aggressive on one car may not be aggressive enough on another, even if the level of defect appears fairly similar. But again, how do you know? That's a question that brings us back to the test spot. But you probably saw that coming, didn't you?

OK, here's the deal with the test spot. Let's say you've got both SwirlX and Ultimate Compound in your possession. Great! Tape off a small area on the hood of your car (wash and clay as needed first, of course) and then use SwirlX exactly as you should. Now inspect the test spot closely in good light, and compare it to the area you haven't worked on yet. There are a few different results possible after an initial application:

• If you see absolutely no change whatsoever in the appearance of the swirls, odds are you need something more aggressive. This assumes, of course, that you properly worked the product against the paint and didn't just wipe it on like a wax and buff it off.
• If you see a very, very slight change in the level of existing defects, then the above is probably still true
• If the defects look like they've been reduced by half or more, or they're almost completely gone, then either work the product a bit more aggressively, work it for a bit longer, or just do a second application. You don't need to go more aggressive.
• But whether the defects are reduced or not, pay attention to the rest of the paint. Does it look smooth and glossy, or does it look sort of dull and hazy?
  • Smooth and glossy, even with some defects still present, is a good thing. It tells you that your paint is not terribly delicate, so it doesn't mar easily.
  • Dull and hazy tells you that, even though you may need a fairly aggressive process to remove the initial defects, you're going to haze the paint in the process and will then need to follow with a less aggressive process to clear up the haze.

That last scenario is the one that catches out a lot of people new to detailing. They are expecting that a paint cleaner that will remove the defects will leave the paint looking great. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It all depends on the paint. Well, it depends on the applicator used, the method of application, etc but assuming all of that is equal and you're working on two different cars, one may look fantastic and ready for wax while the other needs a more gentle follow up before you can wax it. And that is due to the paint being so different between the two vehicles.

Have a look at The Challenge of Delicate Paint to get an idea what hazed paint looks like. Sometimes you just can't avoid hazing the paint simply because the paint is so darn delicate and you need some level of aggression to remove the defects. Just because the paint hazes that does not mean you're being too aggressive, especially if you're dealing with very soft and delicate paint. If you do a test spot and the defects are gone but the paint is hazy, you may find that a second test spot with a less aggressive product still hazes the paint (maybe to a lesser degree) but it also doesn't remove the defects as well. So what do you do? Well, if you have a sizeable collection of liquids like a pro detailer generally does, then you can experiment a bit. But someone taking care of their own cars is not usually going to go out and purchase a dozen different liquids and pads.

Very hard paint presents a very different problem to sort out. With very hard paint it seems no matter how much you step up in aggressiveness, you just don't make any improvement. Or you make very slight improvements and quickly come to realize that, given the tools you have on hand, you're in for a very long process!!

At the end of the day though, your final decision regarding product and process selection is not based on what you've read on a forum about how someone corrected a car other than yours. It may be a starting point, given enough similarities, but that's all it is.

It's up to you to do a test spot. And then it's up to you to really figure out just what that test spot is telling you.

[Murr1525]

Re: aggressive???

I think I recall from a previous thread that SwirlX is hard to get there, so that also limits options.

The nice thing with the new SMAT products (UC included) is that you can lighten up a little bit to be gentler, and still get a nice finish.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: aggressive???

Well if you start with the least aggressive product first. Do a test spot. If not corrected, step up to the next level of aggressiveness. Repeat until you are satisfied with the results. Then you will not be using a product that will leave hazing.

The value of a test spot.

[Pro01]

Re: aggressive???

ooowh..okay..this will do...

thx a LOT guyz...
really appreciate it..