opinion needed - carwash damage

[Cosmin]

here is the situation: the car has been driven to an automatic car wash by mistake , the result is that the right front fender has deep scratches(photo) , and the left side half hood has deep damage too(photo) ,and some very light scratches on roof , compare with the hood
the owner show the damage to the carwash person and they say their machine didn`t do it because it should be on the whole car, so they are not responsible , plus he mention some 8psi pressure that could not do the damage ??!
as you can see in the pic most of the scratches are deep and parallel. 1/4 from damage it catch my nail.
the whole car was repainted 8 mo ago, i have 200+ , 240 microns paint thickness of the damage area show in the pictures. wetsand it may clean up , but i assume a lot of scratches will be left.
how the owner can prove that the automatic machine did the damage.
like i said the scratches are parallel , a good half of them are long too , and deep. is no way u get that from hand wash.
i would like to hear some more opinions/ solution on this situation. thank you

[Chris Thompson]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

Given the consistency of the scratches, they certainly look like they were done by a machine of some sort. Nobody's hand is that steady (at least nobody careless enough to leave swirls).
If the machine put these marks into your finish, it does not necessarily mean that they would have to be over the ENTIRE car. There are times in an automatic car wash that the brushes are right up against the finish while at other times, it is only the tips of the brushes making contact with the paint.
I am racking my brain trying to think of another machine that could do this type of damage but I cannot think of anything.
As long as nobody has tried to sand it and just left terrible, almost perfectly aligned tracers, I would say that the automatic car wash is the culprit.
If there are three reputable professionals in your area who agree with this, the car wash owner would not have much choice but to pay for repairs.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

Definitely look like they were machine made. That has always been a hazard of automatic washes.

[Shawn T.]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

No person can instill those kind of scratches into a finish during a hand wash unless they were trying to do so. Even then, it's darn near impossible.

The straight deep, parallel scratches look like they were done by those long noodles that pass over the entire car including hood and roof.

The curved ones, especially that long deep arching one, look like they come from drying since most people move in circular motions with dirt filled towels.

It's interesting because the scratches are in an almost cross-hatch pattern. They are definitely machine instilled but I don't know what machine would do that. Maybe take a look inside the wash and see what kind of machines they have going in there. Obviously, don't walk in the wash area but see if you can stand outside and look inside.

That's all I can think of right now though.

[Tuck91]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

You would be suprised how much damage can be done when improperly washing, dusting, QD, drying etc a vehicle.

I completed a maintenence detail recently on 93 RX-7 and had to spot polish the hood to remove some moderate marring.

The client used a swifter duster several times over the course of a couple of months, one of the times was after the vehicle was left outside overnight.

[I Shine]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

Hi Cosmin,

I live in San Antonio but work there in Austin.

Was it one of those automatic washes where there is an attendant that gives your vehicle a "complimentary" scrub down with a plastic bristle scrub brush? My coworker took his car to one and they left "complimentary" scratches all over his car that looked just like the ones in your picture.

[Cosmin]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

My coworker took his car to one and they left "complimentary" scratches all over his car that looked just like the ones in your picture.

i told my client that we should get some opinion on this before we correct the car.
by any chance "I Shine" u have any pictures with damage done on that car after carwash? i am interested if damage is similar, like deep long parallel scratches.

i may rotary-wool the area , and if doesn`t do it i may go with wetsand and all the compound/polish steps. even that will leave some of the deep scratches behind.

[cnfowler]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

here is the situation: the car has been driven to an automatic car wash by mistake...

I can't help but ask, how was it by mistake? Did the driver take a wrong turn and end up in a car wash?


Colin

[HealthyCivic]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

I can't help but ask, how was it by mistake? Did the driver take a wrong turn and end up in a car wash?


Colin

That's what I was thinking too when I first read it. Only possible way that would happen is if:

A. Someone else drove the car into the wash when the owner didn't intend for it to be driven into the wash.

B. The owner drove it in thinking it was a touchless or self-wash when it really wasn't.

In any event, if the owner can get expert witnesses (several detailers) to say that that damage was likely caused by that machine, provide those photos, and perhaps photos of the machine itself, the owner could definitely get that money from the car wash. But he would definitely have to elaborate more on this "accident" business if it were to go to a civil proceeding.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

I can't help but ask, how was it by mistake? Did the driver take a wrong turn and end up in a car wash?


Colin

That's what I was thinking too when I first read it. Only possible way that would happen is if:

A. Someone else drove the car into the wash when the owner didn't intend for it to be driven into the wash.

B. The owner drove it in thinking it was a touchless or self-wash when it really wasn't.

In any event, if the owner can get expert witnesses (several detailers) to say that that damage was likely caused by that machine, provide those photos, and perhaps photos of the machine itself, the owner could definitely get that money from the car wash. But he would definitely have to elaborate more on this "accident" business if it were to go to a civil proceeding.

It's not uncommon for dealerships or repair shops to contract with nearby car wash facilities to provide the "complimentary" wash that detailing enthusiasts so often disdain. In this instance, the mistake could have happened if the owner left specific instructions with the dealership or shop to forgo the complimentary wash and it was done anyway.

If that was the circumstance, I would put it on the dealership or shop to either pay to correct the damage or to lean on the car wash for compensation.

[cnfowler]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

...In this instance, the mistake could have happened if the owner left specific instructions with the dealership or shop to forgo the complimentary wash and it was done anyway.

If that was the circumstance, I would put it on the dealership or shop to either pay to correct the damage or to lean on the car wash for compensation.

I would agree 100% with this.

I'm thinking it's going to be hard to get the car wash to pay for any damages, even if local professional detailers say the damage is consistent with an automatic wash.


Colin

[akimel]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

I do not know how one could prove that the car wash did the alleged damage, in the absence of verified "before" and "after" photographic evidence.

[I Shine]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

i told my client that we should get some opinion on this before we correct the car.
by any chance "I Shine" u have any pictures with damage done on that car after carwash? i am interested if damage is similar, like deep long parallel scratches.

i may rotary-wool the area , and if doesn`t do it i may go with wetsand and all the compound/polish steps. even that will leave some of the deep scratches behind.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures. When i asked my coworker he verified that the directions of the scratches were the same as the direction that the attendant was scrubbing his car.

My coworkers get annoyed with me when I point out imperfections in their paint so I keep my mouth shut. Unless they're willing to pay me to polish out their cars.

Your pictures look almost "mechanical". They have a very straight look to them.

Sorry that I couldn't be of anymore help. I'm sure your customer will be very pleased with your correction.

Post some pictures when your done.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: opinion needed - carwash damage

Straight line scratches could easily come from an automatic car wash, but generally these follow a path from front to back on the car - we see this in rental cars all the time. The images shown here have straight line scratches running perpendicular to each other, or even at 45 degree angles to each other. That looks more like it was hand scoured either with a ScotchBrite pad, a brush or......

the whole car was repainted 8 mo ago

.....sanding marks. Tracers more specifically. We are saying that's definitely what it is, just throwing it out there as another possibility. We've seen some truly awful paint jobs on cars in the past year, even on expensive cars, and it's amazing what some shops pass off as "acceptable work" these days.

Now, an odd, random scratch may have been inflicted by the car wash, and it's possible that these were too. But proving it is another story. Unless photos were taken of the finish just prior to entering the tunnel it's going to be darn near impossible to lay blame on any single occurrence.