Newbee Needs help with a good shine

[3800rs]

Ok heres what i want i have a few questions. 1. i see alot of you guys are using stuff with numbers like meg #80 and #83 what is all that stuff ? my 97 is red and doesnt have that shine like it should when it was new. i want to make it shine but i dont have a buffer and fear to use one. i dont want to take any of my paint off either. i see some things take some of the paint off. Also what takes off water spots ? Currently i have Scratch x, all 3 meg stages of their 3 step wax, and Gold Class to work with. do i need anythingelse ? Also any way to fix paint chips i doubt it but figured i'd ask. thanks alot

[97t-bird]

Usually the only way to get rid of the water spots is to remove an amount of paint. You will be removing such a small amount of paint on your finish that it wont make hardly any difference. You can use your scratch x and that should take care of the water spots. If the first time you apply it and it doesnt take the defects out it may require a second go at it.

As far as the sruff with number they are all products from meguiars professional line #83(dual action cleaner polish) etc. It is just another line of product that they offer.

As far as the best shine you can get it is really up to personal preference. You say you have all 3 steps i am assuming that it is the deep crystal system that would be an excellent way to go you can achieve excellent results with those products the only other thing i can suggest would be for you to pick up some clay(quick clay is great) that way you can remove all of the above surace contaminants that stopyou from achieving that smooth finish.

Later on I would strongly suggest moving up to a pc I have the G-100 from meguiars(same as porter cable) and i love it it really helps out alot with applying paint cleaners polishes and waxes.

Here is an outline for a general detail:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Paint cleaner
4. Polish
5. Wax
I hope I was able to clear up a few things for you. I know other will chime in and help you out. Greg.

[wblynch]

Re: Newbee Needs help with a good shine

Originally posted by 3800rs

my 97 is red and doesnt have that shine like it should when it was new. i want to make it shine but i dont have a buffer and fear to use one. i dont want to take any of my paint off either.

Well, if there are scratches or "swirls" in your paint (and most likely there are) the only way to eliminate them is to remove some paint.

Mike Phillips has some great postings about this and what it means.

But the good news is you don't have to remove very much paint and there are tools that make it very safe to do.

As mentioned above, the first step after washing will be to use clay. I think clay is the single best thing you can do for restoration of your paint.

Clay does not remove any paint but it removes all the surface contaminants that make your paint look old and dingy.

After the clay then you can use a cleaner/polish that come in different degrees of abrasiveness.

Use a G-100 (or Porter Cable) dual action polisher with foam pads to polish the paint with a very low risk of damage. The results will be stunning.

Here is my 1997 Mustang in Red after claying the paint, using #83 with a G-100 followed by #80 and then the Gold Class wax.

[3800rs]

yes your stang is the shine i want. how much are these buffers ? is it hard to use ? i heard if u dont know how to use a buffer you can ruin your paint or cause enormous swirls.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Re: Newbee Needs help with a good shine

Originally posted by wblynch
Here is my 1997 Mustang in Red after claying the paint, using #83 with a G-100 followed by #80 and then the Gold Class wax.

Wow!

The paint on your Mustang looks like it's wet!

Nice work!

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by 3800rs
yes your stang is the shine i want. how much are these buffers ? is it hard to use ? i heard if u dont know how to use a buffer you can ruin your paint or cause enormous swirls.

Hi 3800rs,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

Here at our Saturday Detailing Classes we teach all different ages of people from all different walks of life how to use the G100 Dual Action Polisher.

This little girl is 10 years old,



And here is her Grandma!



So it's not as hard as it may seem. Now the Rotary Buffer, that's another story...

Here's the basic order of steps to follow,


Washing
Before detailing your car, first do an extremely good job of washing it. Remove all the dirt from all the nooks and crannies. This prevents any small abrasive dirt particle from entering into the machine polishing process and potentially instilling a swirl. Get the Car Sparkling Clean to start with and everything will be downhill after that.

Claying
After that clay the car, at least the horizontal surfaces. Again, do a good job of claying to insure you remove all above surface contaminants. The level of gloss you can achieve from your car's finish is mostly determined by how smooth you can make your paint. Claying will make your car's finish as smooth as glass.

Cleaning
Cleaning is different than washing. Cleaning is removing both above surface defects like oxidation and below surface defects like swirls, scratches, etchings, and dirt that has embedded itself under the surface. Choose the appropriate paint cleaner for the condition of your car's finish and your application process. If you're unsure of which paint cleaner or cleaner/polish is right for your car, describe your car and if possible post a picture and we'll be glad to make some recommendations.


Polishing
Polishing after removing the defects is typically using a pure polish that is non-abrasive to restore brilliant high gloss and deep, dark reflections. This is an optional step and one best used on medium to dark colored car.

Protecting
This is where you apply your choice of wax or paint protectant. Adding a layer or two of wax creates a sacrificial-barrier on your car's paint to protect it and also add shine and gloss. Generally, two thin coats will insure even coverage with a uniform appearance.

Maintaining
Maintaining is the use of products like a quick detailer or a spray wax to maintain that "Just detailed look" in-between regular washings, and the regular application of a normal coat of wax.


Meguiar's always teaches,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

The idea is to see if you can restore an acceptable finish using the least aggressive product. Starting with a mild paint cleaner or cleaner/polish and testing to see what can accomplished with it is the safe way to learn which product you will need to safely remove the defects. If the first products you try don't do the job, you can always substitute a more aggressive product.

The most aggressive you can go with Meguiar's products and a dual action polisher is using our #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish and our W-8006 foam pad on the 5.0 setting. Getting any more aggressive than this can cause hazing of the finish and if the defects are serious enough to require a more aggressive product then you should use a rotary buffer or take it to a professional who is experienced with the rotary buffer.


When it comes to removing swirls and other defects using the dual action polisher, here are two products that work really well,

#80 Speed Glaze
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish



In keeping with Meguiar's philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, if you are unfamiliar with these products and/or your car's paint, then always perform "Test Spot" to a small are first before attempting to do the entire car.

"If you cannot make one small area look good with your prescribed products and process, then you will not be able to make the entire car look good"

Makes sense huh?

To do a test spot, start out with the #80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 foam polishing pad and buff for 3-4 minutes.


When cleaning paint with the dual action polisher, you want to map out in your minds eye a section or area about 16" square or rectangle, or whatever fit's your car's body panels shape. The idea is you don't want to try to do to much of an area at one time or you will not get good results. The dual action polisher is gentle in it's cleaning and polishing action and for this reason, trying to work on too large an area at one time will not remove enough paint to remove any defects.

Note: To remove a below surface defect, you must remove some paint until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest depths of the defect you're trying to remove. This means removing paint. This also means how deep of a defect you can remove is determined by how thick you paint is. Often times you can improve a defect, but not completely remove the defect as to do so would remove to much paint and in the case of a clear coat, expose the color coat and in the case of a non-clear coat finish, you will expose the primer under the color coat. How much paint you can remove is hard to know because you can never know exactly how much working film-build you have to work with. Experience in this area helps a lot and sometimes luck is a factor to. Remember this, light swirls are generally pretty safe to remove, but deep scratches like key scratches etc. you will probably be better off merely improving the way they look so they don't stand out like a sore thumb, the to attempt to completely remove them.

When using the dual action polisher to remove defects, map out a section to work in your minds eye. Check the speed setting on the variable speed adjuster. For removing defects you usually need to be around the 4.5 to 5.0 setting. Meguiar's never recommends running the polisher faster than the 5.0 setting as these higher speed settings produce an oscillating action that is too violent in it's speed and motion and this combined with time creates heat and the synergy of all these factors will loosen the Velcro material attached to the foam. Keep your speed settings at 5.0 or below.

After applying some product to your foam pad, (already attached to the polisher), place the face of the foam pad onto the finish and then turn the polisher on. DO NOT turn the polisher on before it has come into contact with the foam pad or your will sling product all over the place and then you'll get to clean the splatter up instead or work on your car's finish. Once you have turned the polisher on, move the polisher around to spread out your product over the area you are going to work. This is important. What you're trying to do here is to spread-out your product so that you have a film of fresh product spread out over the surface you're going to work. THEN begin to work the product against the finish using a slow arm speed, moving the polisher back and forth over the section and overlapping your passes by 50%. You should run the polisher in a couple of different directions, always with overlapping motions, to insure even cleaning over the entire surface.

Note: The reason you want to spread your freshly applied product out over the section you're going to work is because if you turn the polisher on and immediately begin to work in one place, as you're working the product against the finish the diminishing abrasives are breaking down. As you continue to move around the area you're working, by the time you get to the last portion of the area you're working, you will be using a much less aggressive product than when you started out because all the while the diminishing abrasives have been breaking down. If when you first start out you take a few moments to spread the freshly applied product around over the entire section you're going to work, and then go back to your start point, you will have fresh product ready to be worked into the finish as you move from one area to the other.

Does that makes sense?

After you have buffed the area for 3-4 minutes, (how long you buff can be relative to the temperature and humidity in your area, also the type of paint your working on and the amount of product you applied. The important thing is that you buffed long enough to work the product against the finish and have broken the diminishing abrasives down, but you have not buffed to long and buffed to a dry buff. This is something that is hard to explain with a keyboard and a computer monitor and is really something that first-hand experience will teach you), stop buffing, wipe off the residue and inspect the results in two kinds of light, (if possible). If your results look good and are acceptable to you, then repeat this process, (#80 Speed Glaze with the W-8006 foam pad on the 4.5 to 5.0 setting), and after removing all of the residue you can then go on to the waxing step.

If your results don't look good, and this combination of products is not removing as many of the swirls and scratches as you would like, then try repeating the above to the same test section using the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Use a new clean W-8006 foam polishing pad for this step, or a W-8006 foam polishing pad that you have previously used with the #83.

Here's a suggestion
Use a permanent marker to mark the back of your buffing pads with the product number you're using with them so you don't mix different products onto different pads.


After buffing the test section on the 5.0 setting remove the excess product and re-polish the same area with the #80 Speed Glaze and the W-8006 pad marked and used with this product. Repeat the same procedure as originally outlined for doing the test spot with the #80 above. After you are finished buffing this area, remove the residue and inspect your results again in two kinds of light if possible.

The goal of coarse is that now your car's finish will look great! and be ready for you choice of wax. If your car's finish does look great and meets your expectations then repeat this 2-step cleaning approach to the entire car. If not then chances are very good to remove the defects and meet you requirements the finish will need to be professionally cleaned and polished using a rotary buffer by an experienced professional.



Hope this helps...

Mike

[wblynch]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Wow!

The paint on your Mustang looks like it's wet!

Nice work!

Mike

Thanks Mike.

I'm just implementing what I learned at the Meguiar's Detail Clinic you hosted last November.

This car was heavily oxidized and the Meguiar's Quick Clay had the most profound effect.

The urethane bumpers felt like sandpaper until after they were clayed. Then they felt as smooth as chocolate pudding.

The #83 applied with the G-100 polisher took out the major swirls and scratches while the #80 brought out the shine.

I really like the Gold Class wax on this red because it looks so deep and rich.