Lake Country 5.5" PADS

[TimG]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

In Australia, a more popular choice (what they told me) is the Festool Rotex. Pricey tool. Ouch! Cost way more then a flex da.

Another brand that we can ponder upon is the Rupes polisher.

[agp56]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

TimG - The Makita B06040 looks like a promising tool. However, the cost is more than I paid for the PC XP7424 wi a full complement of pads.

[TimG]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Makita B06040?

[FRS]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

If Makita comes with a DA, that would be good.

[gmck]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Mike,

However, no one can say there aren't quality machines outside of the Flex.

I'm not sure where this is going, if not in circles. Let's just say I'm not impressed with the quality of the DAs I've seen and used. Now you tell me the PC also has its problems. The G110 have their problems therefore that doesn't leave much other than the Flex. M105 and KBM is not going to go away, therefore the Flex seems the obvious answer even with your stated Cons.

I agree with you re the Makita, I can't ever imagine that breaking. That is what I mean by good design. There is nothing flimsy about the Makata. There is nothing toy like about the Makita when you first pick it up, it just feels good in your hand, albeit heavy.

I'd be happy using the Makita for all compounding work, but I no longer have the strength to wield a rotary all day long. Even the lightweight Flex rotary with smaller pads looks a better option (from my point of view) than a DA for 105/KBM type corrections.

[Driven Auto Detail]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Mike,

I'm aware of the disadvantages you mentioned. My idea was to limit the DA to less stressful work and 3" work and do the M105 stuff with the Flex. If it handles more like a rotary I'm not really worried, because I use a rotary when I have to. Do you know if the Groits has a 220 volt version. Is its design any different, bearings, spindle sizes etc than other DAs.

I am not sure to be honest. I've not seen a 220 version but that doesn't mean that don't have one.

Cost doesn't really come into it if you are looking a reliability. Quality usually costs period.

I totally agree about quality and reliability. However, no one can say there aren't quality machines outside of the Flex. Until the recent failures of the new PC 7424 XP (again, I think are caused mostly by the KBM method), the PC was the epitome of quality and reliability. The Makita was also known for the same thing on the rotary side. Again, I'm all for quality and reliability, but I'm also for value.

[gmck]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Mike,

I'm aware of the disadvantages you mentioned. My idea was to limit the DA to less stressful work and 3" work and do the M105 stuff with the Flex. If it handles more like a rotary I'm not really worried, because I use a rotary when I have to. Do you know if the Groits has a 220 volt version. Is its design any different, bearings, spindle sizes etc than other DAs.

I don't much like the idea of importing a machine from the US, as it is not really feasible to sent it back for repairs under warranty and I doubt very much they are going to provide me with a loaner like the local guy did here.

Cost doesn't really come into it if you are looking a reliability. Quality usually costs period.

[imacarnut]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

I'd bet money the KBM was the root cause of your first DA failure.

You mentioned the Flex. I purchased one when they first came out and have sold it since. Going from an original PC 7424 to a Flex was great. The power was amazing. The more I started thinking about it though, the more I realized the Flex isn't all that. Yes, it has great power with the dual-action and it's a well-built German machine. But, I think the drawbacks are more than the positives. First of all, the cost is much higher than any other buffer, DA or rotary. Second, you can't change the backing plate to a smaller size. Third, I found that I couldn't get into certain areas that I could with a DA or rotary. Lastly, it just didn't "handle" as well as a DA or rotary. I always felt like I was fighting to hold onto the machine with two hands.

I've owned most buffing machines out there and I can tell you that now all I have is a new Griot's Garage DA and a Makita rotary. Between the two machines, I can do it all. Plus, I have two machines for just a tad more than what I could buy a Flex for (about $25 difference).

Good points mentioned and I would agree. I have a Flex and if I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't of bought one and just stuck to the DA and rotary which both could be had for about the price of the Flex. With new products/pads evolving and getting more advanced (M105, etc), the DA is very capable of just about anything you can throw at it these days. I continue to get blown away with new products that Megs chemists continously keep testing and coming out with (seems like they never rest), and who knows what the future holds. BTW, I can't wait to see the new 11' products that will be introduced shorty, which I'm sure will be awesome as usual.

[Driven Auto Detail]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Hi Mike,

I couldn't agree more. I'm using LC 6.5" pads and a 6" BP with my DA and I'm sure I'd be better off with a smaller BP and smaller pads, especially when using M105 and the KB method.

I've already had my first DA fail. The spindle developed a wobble after about 5-6 weeks. Looks like a bearing failure, but I'm still waiting on a report from the supplier. The replacement seems ok, but it is now about 2 weeks, so unless it was a one off it is going to happen again. I beginning to think that correction work with m105/KBM at speed 6 is just too much for these little DAs. Every time I pick one up, I can't help but think it is really a toy, compared to the machines I'm used to.

It is looking like a Flex is the way to go if you are going to be pounding one of these every day. The Germans not only build great cars, but looks like they do polishers really well too.

I'd bet money the KBM was the root cause of your first DA failure.

You mentioned the Flex. I purchased one when they first came out and have sold it since. Going from an original PC 7424 to a Flex was great. The power was amazing. The more I started thinking about it though, the more I realized the Flex isn't all that. Yes, it has great power with the dual-action and it's a well-built German machine. But, I think the drawbacks are more than the positives. First of all, the cost is much higher than any other buffer, DA or rotary. Second, you can't change the backing plate to a smaller size. Third, I found that I couldn't get into certain areas that I could with a DA or rotary. Lastly, it just didn't "handle" as well as a DA or rotary. I always felt like I was fighting to hold onto the machine with two hands.

I've owned most buffing machines out there and I can tell you that now all I have is a new Griot's Garage DA and a Makita rotary. Between the two machines, I can do it all. Plus, I have two machines for just a tad more than what I could buy a Flex for (about $25 difference).

[gmck]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Hi Mike,

I couldn't agree more. I'm using LC 6.5" pads and a 6" BP with my DA and I'm sure I'd be better off with a smaller BP and smaller pads, especially when using M105 and the KB method.

I've already had my first DA fail. The spindle developed a wobble after about 5-6 weeks. Looks like a bearing failure, but I'm still waiting on a report from the supplier. The replacement seems ok, but it is now about 2 weeks, so unless it was a one off it is going to happen again. I beginning to think that correction work with m105/KBM at speed 6 is just too much for these little DAs. Every time I pick one up, I can't help but think it is really a toy, compared to the machines I'm used to.

It is looking like a Flex is the way to go if you are going to be pounding one of these every day. The Germans not only build great cars, but looks like they do polishers really well too.

[agp56]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

I am fortunate in that my daily driver cars are primarily populated with fairly flat panels as well as some of my customer cars. When I am working with a vehicle with more tight areas I switch from the Porter Cable to a GG3" with 4" pads. The tools used varies with each model of car somewhat like you might vary just the pads.

[FRS]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Here's my $.02 on pad and backing plate size on a DA...

As most know, the smaller the pad on a DA the more power you're going to get out of the machine. That said, my biggest gripe about the Meguiar's 2.0 pads is the size. IMO, 6.5" pads are the ABSOLUTE biggest pads that should be used on a DA. I've used the 2.0 7" pads on the DA and I think they are worthless. I like the foam and the features of the pad, but they are too big for a DA machine, period.

Also, the size of the spindle on the DA is very small when compared to a rotary spindle. When bigger pads/backing plates are used on a DA, there's a higher chance of the backing plate being worked at an uneven angle, particularly on curved body panels. It's my opinion, this uneven angle puts more stress on the tiny spindle, thus increasing the chance of spindle failure and possible major damage to a car if this happens. It's also my opinion why there are more DA failures when people employ the KB method of polishing.

If I am doing some sort of AIO or light polish, my go to pad is the Meg's yellow 6.5" pad. Reason being is that I can move around the vehicle somewhat quickly because I am a) not doing paint correction and b) the 6.5" pad covers more area than a 5.5" pad. If I'm doing any sort of real correction work and I'm not using my rotary, 5.5" pad is what I reach for. The 5.5" pad will allow for more power out of the DA, which makes it great for the DA.

Ok, now my thoughts on backing plates. On the DA, I prefer backing plates that cover about 90% of the pad. If I'm using a 5.5" pad, I'll use a 5" BP. If I'm using a 6.5" pad, I'll use a 6" BP. Here is my reasoning. The BP is what puts the pressure on the pad. If you're using a 5" BP on a DA with a 6.5" pad, you are limiting the amount of "useable" surface area on the face of the pad. To better understand my point, think about using a 3" BP with a 7" pad. Theoretically, you've lost 4" of the pad because there's little to no pressure on the outer area of the pad. Now, if you were using a 3" BP with a 3" pad, you'd be using 100% of the available pad surface. The only problem with that though is you risk hitting the paint with your BP. That's why I think it's necessary to only go as big as 90% BP to pad.

On the rotary, it depends on the type of panels I'm working on. If there are a lot of flat panels, I employ the same DA machine concept of a BP covering about 90% of the pad. If I'm working on a lot of curved panels, I like to have a little more "flex" with my pad so I'll use a BP that covers only about 75% of a pad; something like a 6.5" pad with a 5" BP. This allows me to work the curved panels by flexing the pad up more around the BP so there's less risk of it coming in contact with the paint. Plus, having flex on a curved panel just allows for overall better feel and maneuverability.

Speaking of the rotary, I personally prefer not to using anything bigger than a 6.5" pads. Bigger pads make it harder to get into tight areas. Obviously, smaller pads are easier to use in these areas. Plus, it's my opinion that smaller pads also offer better feel and maneuverability vs. larger pads like 7" or 8" pads because they aren't working against as much paint.

So there you go. That's my $.02 on this subject, which is about what it's worth, haha!

I have no experience with rotary, but agree with you on many points regarding the DA.

I need to try the 5"BP and 5.5" pad combo to form my final view .. but yes, was very happy with how 3" BP and 4" pads work. Just superb in any way indeed!!!

[FRS]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

I use the Meguiar's Soft Buff 2.0 series as my primary pads. They are 7" pads. My Porter Cable XP7424 came with a 5" backing plate attached. I have had no issues with this combination. I really like the clean up of the Soft Buff 2.0 pads, just wash them in the washing machine, set them on a towel to dry, then store them in a ziplock bag until the next vehicle needs to get its shine improved.

This was my original set-up as the G220 in Australia comes with 5" BP. So 8207 (7") with 5" BP wasn't something I was very happy with, in particular about the 2" unused pad-space.

I then went with 6" BP and 7" pad and that was much better indeed. In this combo I'd like a DA with more power and efficiency.

My next step was 3" BP with 4" pad (8204) and that was perfect in terms of power and control in the correction process. Yes, the G220 feels pretty powerful with this combo.


I'd also like to try 5" BP and 5.5" pads .. white LC pads on their way!

[Driven Auto Detail]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

Here's my $.02 on pad and backing plate size on a DA...

As most know, the smaller the pad on a DA the more power you're going to get out of the machine. That said, my biggest gripe about the Meguiar's 2.0 pads is the size. IMO, 6.5" pads are the ABSOLUTE biggest pads that should be used on a DA. I've used the 2.0 7" pads on the DA and I think they are worthless. I like the foam and the features of the pad, but they are too big for a DA machine, period.

Also, the size of the spindle on the DA is very small when compared to a rotary spindle. When bigger pads/backing plates are used on a DA, there's a higher chance of the backing plate being worked at an uneven angle, particularly on curved body panels. It's my opinion, this uneven angle puts more stress on the tiny spindle, thus increasing the chance of spindle failure and possible major damage to a car if this happens. It's also my opinion why there are more DA failures when people employ the KB method of polishing.

If I am doing some sort of AIO or light polish, my go to pad is the Meg's yellow 6.5" pad. Reason being is that I can move around the vehicle somewhat quickly because I am a) not doing paint correction and b) the 6.5" pad covers more area than a 5.5" pad. If I'm doing any sort of real correction work and I'm not using my rotary, 5.5" pad is what I reach for. The 5.5" pad will allow for more power out of the DA, which makes it great for the DA.

Ok, now my thoughts on backing plates. On the DA, I prefer backing plates that cover about 90% of the pad. If I'm using a 5.5" pad, I'll use a 5" BP. If I'm using a 6.5" pad, I'll use a 6" BP. Here is my reasoning. The BP is what puts the pressure on the pad. If you're using a 5" BP on a DA with a 6.5" pad, you are limiting the amount of "useable" surface area on the face of the pad. To better understand my point, think about using a 3" BP with a 7" pad. Theoretically, you've lost 4" of the pad because there's little to no pressure on the outer area of the pad. Now, if you were using a 3" BP with a 3" pad, you'd be using 100% of the available pad surface. The only problem with that though is you risk hitting the paint with your BP. That's why I think it's necessary to only go as big as 90% BP to pad.

On the rotary, it depends on the type of panels I'm working on. If there are a lot of flat panels, I employ the same DA machine concept of a BP covering about 90% of the pad. If I'm working on a lot of curved panels, I like to have a little more "flex" with my pad so I'll use a BP that covers only about 75% of a pad; something like a 6.5" pad with a 5" BP. This allows me to work the curved panels by flexing the pad up more around the BP so there's less risk of it coming in contact with the paint. Plus, having flex on a curved panel just allows for overall better feel and maneuverability.

Speaking of the rotary, I personally prefer not to using anything bigger than a 6.5" pads. Bigger pads make it harder to get into tight areas. Obviously, smaller pads are easier to use in these areas. Plus, it's my opinion that smaller pads also offer better feel and maneuverability vs. larger pads like 7" or 8" pads because they aren't working against as much paint.

So there you go. That's my $.02 on this subject, which is about what it's worth, haha!

[agp56]

Re: Lake Country 5.5" PADS

I use the Meguiar's Soft Buff 2.0 series as my primary pads. They are 7" pads. My Porter Cable XP7424 came with a 5" backing plate attached. I have had no issues with this combination. I really like the clean up of the Soft Buff 2.0 pads, just wash them in the washing machine, set them on a towel to dry, then store them in a ziplock bag until the next vehicle needs to get its shine improved.