Swirl Removal Help

[Pascal]

Hi everyone,

I'm a noob when it comes to detailing and I just started to read and watch all the training and tips video, so please bare with me if some of my questions are just plain stupid lol.

I have alot of swirls on my car, I believe the first driver probably took it to the automated car washers often. Anyhow I picked up Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and used an orbiter to remove the swirls. I applied around 4 to 5 times of Ultimate Compound and it was able to remove around 40% of the swirls. Under the sun I do see less spider web patterns but the swirls are still there. My question is should I keep using more compound or should I try something stronger now? Not sure if I should jump to Swirl Remover 2.0 or M105 products?

thanks
pascal

[Flash Gordon]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

What machine and pads are you using

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

What machine and pads are you using

I'm using Simoniz Palm Grip Polisher, 8 in and using the pad it came with. Its not a bad but a terry cloth like bonnet, one for wax and one for polishing. Do you think this is the problem?

Below is a link to the product

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/CarWashingCleaning/CarPolishers/PRD~0399056P/Simoniz%252BPalm%252BGrip%252BPolisher%25252C%252B8-in..jsp?locale=en

[Murr1525]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

There is a fair chance the machine may not be good enough...

What kind of car is it as well?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

What kind of car are you working on and what color is it? How long are you working the Ultimate Compound and with how much pressure?

There are a lot of things that could potentially be going on here - you mention the spiderwebbing being reduced but the swirls are still present. Can you capture a picture of this?

Here's what we're really getting at: if you're not working the product for very long, or with only light pressure, it could be that you just aren't getting the most out of it. But no matter how you're working it, if you have very delicate paint then UC may actually be a bit too aggressive and it's badly hazing the paint. Then again, you're using terry cloth bonnets on the tool and that material alone can be quite aggressive, causing hazing or worse on delicate paint.

So before you jump up to M105 let's take a closer look at your paint, and your technique.

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

Thanks Murr1525 and Michael Stoops for your response, much appreciated it. Let me get into the details!

Car: 2009 Nissan 370z
Color: Monterrey Blue
Methodology:I would break the car into sections, only worked on the hood of the car so I just split it in half. For each section I would move the orbiter along the panel in light pressure and steady pace fashion. I don't use too much pressure but I would do at least 10 overlapping runs on each section. I would note that I would do this at night so the weather is a bit cold, live in Canada not much I can do lol. Does temperature affect the product by any chance? I don't have any before and after pictures of the spider web and such, I will try to take some pictures of the swirls. Regarding hazing, I searched online for pictures and it looks really similar to swirl marks. What's the difference exactly? So your right Michael it's very possible it could be hazing. If it is hazing, how can that be repaired/removed?
Possible Cause: Poor machinery? You guys think I should get the G2 DA polisher?

[Chris Thompson]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

I would highly recommend going ahead and getting a DA. From the sounds of it, you and your car are going to be spending some quality time together over the years and the DA's are great to have.
Before giving up on UC, try using a foam pad by hand. The terry bonnet might actually be putting swirls back into the paint. Like Mike said, terrys are relatively aggressive.

[angeloaa]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

Thanks Murr1525 and Michael Stoops for your response, much appreciated it. Let me get into the details!

Car: 2009 Nissan 370z
Color: Monterrey Blue
Methodology:I would break the car into sections, only worked on the hood of the car so I just split it in half. For each section I would move the orbiter along the panel in light pressure and steady pace fashion. I don't use too much pressure but I would do at least 10 overlapping runs on each section. I would note that I would do this at night so the weather is a bit cold, live in Canada not much I can do lol. Does temperature affect the product by any chance? I don't have any before and after pictures of the spider web and such, I will try to take some pictures of the swirls. Regarding hazing, I searched online for pictures and it looks really similar to swirl marks. What's the difference exactly? So your right Michael it's very possible it could be hazing. If it is hazing, how can that be repaired/removed?
Possible Cause: Poor machinery? You guys think I should get the G2 DA polisher?

Pascal just a thought:
if your having trouble bring your car a detailer and tell him you want all swirl marks removed, no wax, no polish. after getting it done, you'd have to polish, wax, and maintain it.
next couple of days seem to be looking great for our area.

[SVT Lightning]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

I just detailed a friends 350Z a few months back. Started with #80 and it hardly fazed it. Stepped up to UC and had great success. I was using a PC7336 with Megs 8207 pad. Hard paint but got no hazing with the UC.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

Methodology:I would break the car into sections, only worked on the hood of the car so I just split it in half. For each section I would move the orbiter along the panel in light pressure and steady pace fashion. I don't use too much pressure but I would do at least 10 overlapping runs on each section.

This is probably the single largest contributing factor to the limited results you're getting. The tool you have doesn't provide a lot of power and you're actually working quite a large area. Even with a quality D/A buffer like our G110v2 or similar we would suggest you confine your work area to no more than 2' x 2' at a time. That means splitting the hood of your Z not in half, but in quarters or even smaller. Further, even with a D/A you're likely going to need more than just light pressure to correct defects. If the tool you're using bogs down under anything more than light pressure that's a sure sign that it just doesn't have the power needed for this task.

Temperature can and does play a role in this process, but usually only when it's colder than about 50F (10C) or warmer than 90F (32C), at which point the products just don't behave properly. At that point it's more an issue of gumming, smearing, flash drying, etc rather than just not effectively removing defects.

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

I would highly recommend going ahead and getting a DA. From the sounds of it, you and your car are going to be spending some quality time together over the years and the DA's are great to have.
Before giving up on UC, try using a foam pad by hand. The terry bonnet might actually be putting swirls back into the paint. Like Mike said, terrys are relatively aggressive.

Actually I did try using a cotton pad, it didn't work so well. It seem like the pad absorb most of the compound, I never tried using a foam pad may give that a shot!

Yeah I'm leaning towards getting the DA from Meguiars, went on a few sites and it seems to be sold out everywhere. Can anyone refer a site that will ship to Canada?

Thanks!

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

Pascal just a thought:
if your having trouble bring your car a detailer and tell him you want all swirl marks removed, no wax, no polish. after getting it done, you'd have to polish, wax, and maintain it.
next couple of days seem to be looking great for our area.

I could, thought about it but I spent money on this project already and I'm the type of person that will finish what I started. Plus it's not a bad idea to learn how to do this properly

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

I just detailed a friends 350Z a few months back. Started with #80 and it hardly fazed it. Stepped up to UC and had great success. I was using a PC7336 with Megs 8207 pad. Hard paint but got no hazing with the UC.

Good to know, not going to give up on UC yet. Will give it a few more tries before I need to use more abrasive products.
Thanks!

[Pascal]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

This is probably the single largest contributing factor to the limited results you're getting. The tool you have doesn't provide a lot of power and you're actually working quite a large area. Even with a quality D/A buffer like our G110v2 or similar we would suggest you confine your work area to no more than 2' x 2' at a time. That means splitting the hood of your Z not in half, but in quarters or even smaller. Further, even with a D/A you're likely going to need more than just light pressure to correct defects. If the tool you're using bogs down under anything more than light pressure that's a sure sign that it just doesn't have the power needed for this task.

Temperature can and does play a role in this process, but usually only when it's colder than about 50F (10C) or warmer than 90F (32C), at which point the products just don't behave properly. At that point it's more an issue of gumming, smearing, flash drying, etc rather than just not effectively removing defects.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try again this weekend and break it down to smaller sections. Will apply more force and see if it corrects the problem. Last time I worked with UC the weather was about 13C or so and your right it started gumming and it was much harder to rub off.

I actually tried to take pictures but I couldn't capture the swirl marks, bad lighting. Well try again later.

Regarding the next steps after the removal of swirls, I believe I'm suppose to apply some polish or sealant or glaze? Not sure, can you suggest some products?

Thanks!

[angeloaa]

Re: Swirl Removal Help

Thanks for the advice, I'll try again this weekend and break it down to smaller sections. Will apply more force and see if it corrects the problem. Last time I worked with UC the weather was about 13C or so and your right it started gumming and it was much harder to rub off.

I actually tried to take pictures but I couldn't capture the swirl marks, bad lighting. Well try again later.

Regarding the next steps after the removal of swirls, I believe I'm suppose to apply some polish or sealant or glaze? Not sure, can you suggest some products?

Thanks!

Smaller sections will help.
13C is perfect, reason why it was hard to remove is because you allowed it to dry/you were working on a large area. If the UC is drying on you apply more UC to your applicator, work it in, and wipe it off using a MF towel.

Pascal, did you clay your car before working on it? If not, do it before trying any paint correction items.
get that buffer you have and see if you could return it, thats not going to help you.
Start from scratch and use these steps/items.
1. Wash and Dry
2. Clay
3. Paint Cleaner (you can probably use this for step 5)
4. use UC for paint correction
5. If you have hazing use more UC but not rubbing it in as aggressive as the first time/pass.
6. Polish
7. Seal
8. Wax
9. Maintain

Items (Canadian Tire)
DC Car wash $9.99 (optional or use whatever you have)
Clay Detailing System $29.99
DC Step1 $14.99
UC $14.99
DC Step2 $14.99
Megs. Gold Liquid Wax $20.99
NXT 2.0 $29.99

this is what I would do. don't make any plans for the weekend.