American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

[Thewaxmania]

Hey guys, I've just got a topic that I'm looking for some folks to jaw with about. I just bought a 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme in Bright Red (code 81) as a winter car after a scary winter a few years ago with snow and my Jaguar Vanden Plas and sliding into snow banks all the time. Last year I didn't drive it much and kept it hidden away when it did look foul out, but it didn't snow much so I put off buying a winter car until now. Its been a long time since I've been around the late model GM or Ford cars and trucks on a regular basis so I haven't gotten into them much and I only detail my own Jag and other similar cars for friends and exotics and motorcycles here and there when people beg me so I'm not even really a detailer, per-se, anymore.

The problem I found was that no matter what I did to the paint, I could not remove all swirl marks and defects. My Jag's paint levels nice and Merc paint has always been good to work with, but this car, just didn't want to cut. I buffed with a pretty aggressive cutting compound and a wool pad, a medium compound with a Megs red foam pad, a polish/swirl remover and a Megs polish pad, a machine glaze with a black foam finish pad, and waxed it with Colinite 476s by hand and by all means is it shiny and looks 100 times better, but I can still see the more aggressive swirls/scratches/defects are still there. Aside from wet-sanding the entire car and starting over (and I'm not sure there's even enough paint left to do so and the car really isn't worth the time and expense on my knees and wrists) what do you guys do?

I've never really worked with cars that have had finish flaws with crappier quality paint and a client who wanted the car perfect, so I'm not sure that market even exists. I guess I wouldn't expect someone to pay me $500 or more to detail a car that's only worth twice or three times that. No one else will notice these imperfections, but I do. I keep thinking, "its a winter beater, quit worrying", but I'd certainly like to know of other experiences out there. The car has 140,000 miles on it and could probably use a new paint job, but its overall in good condition otherwise. A perfectly serviceable automobile. I think back to when I was in high school and college and a Jaguar was a pipe dream, I would have poked someone in the eye really hard to get my hands on something like this Olds, so its a properly decent car. I think these old GMs get overlooked as worthless, when they just need some love. I mean, it gets 30 mpg and costs about $0.50 to insure. What's not to like?

Thanks
Brett

[agp56]

Re: American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

This is something I deal with from time to time on both a personal and professional measure. On the personal measure, my daily driver for most of the year is a 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I am the second owner. The first owner kept it in the garage almost all the time , it had very low miles, but it was often washed in a tunnel wash that wasn't kind to it. Also, the garage door was closed down once on the rear of the top at one point. So there were things to clean up like you described on your Oldsmobile.
On the professional side of things, because I got the Mercury looking good, I often get people looking to get an older ride cleaned up. My job yesterday was a 1994 Oldsmobile Bravada (think Chevy S series Blazer) that had not been washed in months or waxed in years. I was able to get the sides looking really good and some gloss back to the hood and top. The wheels cleaned up quite a bit, but the clear coat on the factory wheels had been compromised, so you could only do so much. I did a walk around with the owner before I started & talked about areas of concern. It had 164k miles on the clock, and drove out pretty well. The owner was satisfied when he stopped by to pick it up.
In summary, because these vehicles had not had the high level of quality care on their exteriors over time, there is only so much that can be done without endangering the last protective layers of paint.

[BillyJack]

Re: American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

I bought a Red Metallic "98 Olds Intrigue last winter for the same purpose. It was absolutely filthy when I got it, having been parked under a large pine tree for over a year. It took two sessions with an aggressive clay and a lot of brush work in all the nooks and crannies to get rid of all the dirt, needles and pine sap, just to evaluate what I had. I hit the worse areas with 3M perfect-it compound with a wool pad on a rotary, then did the entire car with M02, then M09, both with a yellow Meg's pad on a rotary. Actually, it looked pretty darn good. If I can only find the time to attack the gazillion little stone chips on the front end, I can make it even presentable in my eyes.
I can only speak for GM, but the 80's and 90's were certainly transition years as far as paint coatings were concerned. The first BC/CC cars were 1985 and given the changing emission regs for paint processes it was well into the 90's before they delivered decent paint quality with consistency. And now we're in transition again with the switch to water-based finishes. All of which provides a challenge to wackos like us who try and make them look like they're coated with glass. Bottom line is that you can do what you can do, and no more. But thanks to the great exchange of ideas in venues like this forum, there's always hope.

Bill

[Thewaxmania]

Re: American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

Oh stone chips galore on this Cutlass. And its red, so they stick out just like a sore thumb. I'm considering masking off the front 1/4 of the hood, sanding it down to the base, glazing the chips and deep scratches and repainting it with red and then clearing it and trying my best to blend the two. We'll see how this winter goes.

[TOGWT]

Re: American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

Solvent-based vs. Water-based (waterborne)

Prior to 1980 most automotive paint used was a solvent-based Nitrocellulose lacquer coating, which required oil-based products that contained solvents to keep them from becoming brittle and cracking The oil-based paint, nitrocellulose lacquer or enamel and older technology paints on classic vehicles requires oils to keep them from becoming too brittle and cracking, water-based high solid/low solvent and urethane paints only require protection (as opposed to ‘feeding’)

In 1980 the US Government began to get involved with the paint process used by auto makers, namely the volatile organic compounds (VOC) content of the petroleum based paints and solvents being used. The allowable emission limits of VOC were subjected to dramatic cutbacks. Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are organic chemical compounds that have high enough vapour pressures under normal conditions to significantly vaporize and enter the atmosphere

1982 a two stage paint; base (colour) coat and clear coat were adopted as an automotive industry standard, sometimes abbreviated as BCCC; base coat / clear coat, although some OEM continued to offer some models with a single stage paint finish. The clear coat is the final original equipment manufacturers coating applied to a vehicle to protect the (colour) base coat from ultra violet radiation, while providing both depth and a durable, glossy appearance, originally designed to protect metallic paints, but is now applied to all colours, with a few exceptions.

By 1990 most OEM had switched to high solids-low volatile organic compounds utilizing a water- based finish.

[CieraSL]

Re: American Paint from the 1980s-1990s

I have a 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL that is my daily driver, and I got it looking pretty good with a G110v2, M105 on a Meg's polishing pad (cutting pad in a couple areas) and Menzerna PO85rd on a Lake Country gray pad. Here's some pics if you want a look:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41112

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42527