***** Need some help/info Please! *****

[greg0303]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

I hope this helps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PyXbrNbsE

[CHzo6]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

No one ever said DA's can do it all, and rotary buffers certainly have their place in polishing. However, you should be able to remove 2000 grit sanding marks with the right products and techniques with a Dual Action polisher.

[garrick]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

wow, i thought this was dead. I do see alot of places that it is possible to do this with a da, however this is definitely something i'm going to be doing more than once and it would be nice to have something a little more efficient.

I was looking at a couple less expensive polishers. Some brands that offer buffers around 70-90$ include:

Neiko (1.75hp)
Steelman 97565
Amstar 3002
ATD 51011
Black and Decker wp107b
Kustom Shop.

All of them are 1000-3000 rpm except for kustom shop which is 600-3000. Anybody have info on any of these?? I know i'm probably thinking too hard but 100$ is alot of money when your going to school..
maybe i should be posting this in a new thread??

[RaskyR1]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

A rotary will be your best bet IMO at removing 2000 grit sanding marks. If you had finished with 3000+ grit paper a DA would be a decent option. If you still want to use a DA it can be done but I'd strongly suggest using the Surbuf pads as they will be much more effective than foam...though I still think you will struggle with removing any tracers via DA.


Another major factor to concider is how long it's been since the vehicle was painted, as well as the type of clear used. This could be the deciding factor on whether or not the DA will be very effective.


EDIT: Learning how to use the rotary first would also be a wise idea too.




Hope this helps,

Rasky

[garrick]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

o and fyi the truck has been painted for 2 weeks, i would like to order the stuff i need by tomorrow so i can finish it this weekend. is 3 weeks of dry time going to effect anything drastically?

[greg0303]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

Thank you, Rasky, I appreciate you backing me up in this matter.
Garrick, before you use a rotary buffer for the first time you need to practice. If you could get a junk hood with a paint still on it it'd great. Remember, circular buffer can burn through your paint very quickly, you have to keep moving it. I hope Meguiar's Asia video helped you.
Good luck !!!

[RaskyR1]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

o and fyi the truck has been painted for 2 weeks, i would like to order the stuff i need by tomorrow so i can finish it this weekend. is 3 weeks of dry time going to effect anything drastically?

Really depends on the paint.


On this Acura we used a high solids clear and it was some of the hardest paint I've ever laid a buffer to after it cured for 4-5 weeks.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37750

On this Corvette I was able to remove 4000 grit sanding marks on a test panel using the DA/Surbuf/M105 with ease! ...and this car was painted 10 years ago! (I did end up using the rotary though)

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45017

Thank you, Rasky, I appreciate you backing me up in this matter.
Garrick, before you use a rotary buffer for the first time you need to practice. If you could get a junk hood with a paint still on it it'd great. Remember, circular buffer can burn through your paint very quickly, you have to keep moving it. I hope Meguiar's Asia video helped you.
Good luck !!!

No prob. There were good points brought up by both sides IMO.


There are definitely some people who feel they can cut and buff a car in less time with a DA as it definitely reduces the amount of buffing steps needed. On paint that is on the softer side I would agree to a point, but I still feel DA's are limited when it comes to removing sanding marks close to an edge.

Cheers,
Rasky

[garrick]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

Yes, thankyou very much for all the replies! I'll find something to practice on, I just need to decide on a polisher, i listed a bunch in a new thread asking for opinions, thanks again!

[RaskyR1]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

Yes, thankyou very much for all the replies! I'll find something to practice on, I just need to decide on a polisher, i listed a bunch in a new thread asking for opinions, thanks again!

Good Luck! Be sure to post pics when it's all done!

[Dubbin1]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

Thank you, Rasky, I appreciate you backing me up in this matter.

I don't really see where he was backing anyone up other then to agree that a DA can be used to take out sanding marks

Now remember that I never said a DA is the only way to go. The only reason I posted it was because you said it cant be done. Heck even the little under powered griots 3" polisher has been used to remove 2000 grit marks...

I really think that you are behind times on the new pads and products for DAs as they can do a lot more now then they could just a few years ago.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

garrick, the level of success you or anyone else will have when trying to remove 2000 grit sanding marks with a D/A is going to be highly dependent on

• the hardness or workability, if you prefer, of the paint (we've been involved in a project here at Meguiar's Garage that involved 3000 grit final D/A sanding on a very bizarre paint system that was a royal pain in the backside to remove, even in the hands of a group of guys with over 100 years combined experience!!)
• the quality of the sanding marks (2000 grit by hand or D/A can be quite different, quality sandpaper vs cheap sandpaper, overall skill at sanding)
• the skill level of the person operating the buffer (whether D/A or rotary - we've seen people seriously mess up this step with a rotary)

Depending on the paint you used, how it was mixed, etc you may find it to be quite soft and therefore fairly easy to remove the sanding marks. But the very low power orbital buffers you mentioned in your other post are going to be very, very hard pressed to remove the sanding marks, especially with the fairly mild liquids you're suggesting.

If you're going to do this you'll need a serious D/A at the very least - Meguiar's G110v2, PC 7424XP, Griot's, etc - and not some lightweight orbital. Even then, in the hands of someone with no experience using this tool, it's going to be very slow going and potentially frustrating. It is possible to do it, but it's not the preferred method for most experienced detailers. A quality rotary buffer with a wool pad is definitely going to be the faster and more efficient way to do this, but it's also the fastest way to ruin your new paint job if you have no experience with this tool. The rotary and D/A are night and day different when it comes to power to correct, and power to damage.

The inexpensive (relatively speaking, we do understand) buffers you've been looking at are very likely going to be a waste of money here. Do yourself a favor and find a way to get a good D/A at least - check ebay even - and proceed from there. But step up your choice of liquid to M105 with a follow up of M205 to refine the finish. The paint itself is going to dictate, to a high degree, how things are going to go once you get started.

[greg0303]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

I don't really see where he was backing anyone up other then to agree that a DA can be used to take out sanding marks

Now remember that I never said a DA is the only way to go. The only reason I posted it was because you said it cant be done. Heck even the little under powered griots 3" polisher has been used to remove 2000 grit marks...

I really think that you are behind times on the new pads and products for DAs as they can do a lot more now then they could just a few years ago.

My original reply to this thread:
For effective sand mark removal you need a rotary buffer with either wool or foam cutting pad and M105/M95 compound. You can get some rotary machines below $100 at Amazon. I saw Black & Decker one for around $80 with speed 1000-3000 rpm. Better buffers like Makita 9227 and Dewalt 849 cost closer to $200. As speed setting you need between 1200-1500 rpm for compound sand mark removal. Foam cutting pad creates a lot of heat so check it out frequently. Follow with M205/M80 Polish.
Sometimes you can remove 2000 grit sand marks with DA polisher but it's not guaranteed.

[garrick]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

now i'm a little confused, get the orbital or get the decent da from meguiars or pc?? what would be better for a beginner?

[akimel]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

now i'm a little confused, get the orbital or get the decent da from meguiars or pc?? what would be better for a beginner?

There's no confusion: for a beginner like yourself, you need to a dual action polisher. There are four good models available on the market today: Meguiar's G110, Porter Cable 7424, Griots Random Orbital, and Flex Dual Action Polisher.

I would take a hard look at the Griots'. I've read a lot of good reviews about it, but you won't go wrong with any of them.

Don't settle for anything else. Of course, if you decide to move to a rotary, that's a different ball game.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: ***** Need some help/info Please! *****

now i'm a little confused, get the orbital or get the decent da from meguiars or pc?? what would be better for a beginner?

The following should have clarified it all for you.

The inexpensive (relatively speaking, we do understand) buffers you've been looking at are very likely going to be a waste of money here. Do yourself a favor and find a way to get a good D/A at least - check ebay even - and proceed from there. But step up your choice of liquid to M105 with a follow up of M205 to refine the finish. The paint itself is going to dictate, to a high degree, how things are going to go once you get started.

Go with a good D/A, even a used one if you have to: Porter Cable 7424/7336/7424XP, Meguiars' G110/G110/G110v2, Griot's