Amount of Polish within Products

[Bill Davidson]

I understand M07 and Deep Crystal Polishes are pure polishes.

However, M205 and Gold Class Carnauba PLUS Liquid Wax contain "some" polish. I don't want to skip any steps, but I don't want my paint drying out either.

2 questions:

Is the amount of polish in these products enough to actually condition the paint, or is it purely for a visual aspect?

How often should a pure polish be used (from a maintenance aspect)? Particularly on older vehicles/classics or vehicles that will some day become classics.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Pure polishes will work the best on single stage paints or older clear coats. Clear coats are not very porous when they are initially sprayed but after several years they begin to open up and a pure polish becomes more effective.

With regular use of either GC+ or NXT 2.0 (both polish/waxes) your paint should remain healthy. A use or two a year of M205 wouldn't be a bad idea eitehr as it will nourish the paint with its polishing oils as you work it in. However, if you really want the best of both worlds (cut and polishing oil capacity) then you want to go with M80.

I would use a pure polish once or twice a year.

[TH0001]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

I understand M07 and Deep Crystal Polishes are pure polishes.

However, M205 and Gold Class Carnauba PLUS Liquid Wax contain "some" polish. I don't want to skip any steps, but I don't want my paint drying out either.

2 questions:

Is the amount of polish in these products enough to actually condition the paint, or is it purely for a visual aspect?

Paint does not need to be conditioned, nor can it be. There is some true that as paint ages it becomes more porous, but adding any amount of oils is not going to reverse this or help it.

How often should a pure polish be used (from a maintenance aspect)? Particularly on older vehicles/classics or vehicles that will some day become classics.

I don't think that adding the oils to the paint are going to do anything (other then increase the visual appearance of the paint) in terms of the long term. Keep it clean, waxed (or sealed) and wash frequently and safely and you will maintain the paint to the highest degree.

With in Meguiar's paint care cycle, polishing (with a pure polish) is an optional step.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

As Todd points out, the application of a pure polish is an optional step, and we've always said that.

When you look at what repeated applications of a pure polish can do for faded single stage paint, it is pretty remarkable. But a modern clear coat is quite different in chemical makeup and ability to fully absorb this type of product. If you're concerned about introducing oils to the paint from a "health of the paint" standpoint, it shouldn't be a huge concern and products like any of our cleaner/polishes or polish/waxes should suffice. But for maximum gloss you'll want to use a pure polish every time you wax. Do you need to? No. As mentioned, we consider this to be an optional step, and it has become even more of an option with the advent of catalyzed clear coats, polish/waxes, etc.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

I have a 1980 Camaro with original single stage paint (red in color). It's faded in areas, I don't want to remove paint (or at least very little).

Should I work the polish into these areas with the G110v2 and a finishing pad, or will it not make any difference? Should I just be applying the polish with a terry cloth prior to each wax job and forget about trying to "work" the polish into the paint?

[Murr1525]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

An older single stage paint will show the most benefit of the oils, so a pure polish would be great in that case.

You don't need to 'work' a pure polish in, just massage it in. A smooth foam applicator would be good by hand. Some people use the polishing pad, and some use the finishing pad by machine.

You can certainly apply a polish each time you wax if you choose.

Of course you may be referring to Mike's article on working in #7. That was a little bit of a special case, not the way it would be used every time.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Of course you may be referring to Mike's article on working in #7. That was a little bit of a special case, not the way it would be used every time.

I still don't quite understand all the details of that article... such as madly working a terry towel as being the "least aggressive method". I'm not sure if he got that car to shine by removing paint with a terry towel or if it was the M07 that did it (all due respect to Mike, I'm questioning my thoughts, not his methods). So yes a bit of my confusion does come from that article. I think, I'll read it again.

I'm still really confused when it comes to polish. I did a once over on my Camaro with M07 and a terry towel. I simple smeared it on and it made a huge difference in the look. It really sucked up the M07. Now in another thread I was told, you can't "condition" paint. Well were is all this polish going, just into the "pores" of the single stage paint? Is the result of these pours being "filled" that makes the paint look glossy? Is that all that polish actually does? I assumed the oils "moisturized" the paint.

BTW Michael, I wasn't concerned with harming the paint with oils, I assumed that they were a good thing.

[Murr1525]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

I completely agree, and hopefully Mike can clear that up.

I am not sure how working in #7 with a terry cloth is milder than wiping #80 around with a foam pad.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Bill, when you used M07 with a terry towel, did the towel show color transfer from the car? If so, and we'll assume it did, that means that you did remove some paint. But it doesn't take much paint transfer at all to turn a white terry towel the same color as the car being worked on.

A pure polish applied to paint is roughly equivalent to applying a lotion to dry skin. You know how when your skin actually looks dry and almost flaky until you apply that moisturizing lotion, then you immediately see a change.

When you've got very faded, dull single stage paint you're seeing the effects of oxidation of the upper reaches of that paint. You can, to a degree, rejuvenate the pigment restore the richness of color by applying a pure polish. Part of the process involves removing a bit of the oxidized paint (the towel provides the aggressiveness here), but part of it is also infusing the oils into the pores of the paint. This is much debated, but that's probably partly due to people taking this too literally, as if we're trying to say the paint is somehow alive, or that you're putting oils into the cellular structure of the paint, or something along that line. But on a very fine level the surface of the paint is quite porous, not unlike your skin. And once that paint is oxidized the pores are opened up even more. However it's doing its thing, whatever the mechanism, there is no denying that an application of something as non aggressive as a pure polish can do wonders for enhancing faded single stage paint, regardless of the color. But you are getting these oils down into the pores of the paint, into that open structure on a very fine level. And having those oils in there will help to slow down the drying out of the paint. Locking these oils down with a wax or sealant will help to prevent them from flashing out.

Obviously nothing is perfect, and it seems once the oxidation process has gotten a serious foothold it will show it's ugly head quicker the next time around. That is, it may take many years from new for a car to show badly faded and oxidized paint, but after correcting the problem it takes much less time for these effects to show up the second time around. But treat the paint properly from the get go and it will take much, much longer for that initial fade to show up.

Now, as to your original comment "I did a once over on my Camaro with M07 and a terry towel. I simple smeared it on and it made a huge difference in the look. It really sucked up the M07."; Yes, it will make a noticeable improvement by simply wiping it on and off of faded paint, but you aren't truly solving the problem (ie, removing the oxidation) unless you literally remove some paint. Otherwise you're simply covering up the problem with a temporary fix. A little more aggression in the application process, or choosing a mild cleaner polish like M80, can help with that. Ultimately you want to remove that defect and then stay on top of things to prevent it from coming back in the future. And that means routine waxing, if not routine pure polish application plus waxing.

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Thanks for the generous reply Michael. It explained a lot.

As you mentioned in the last paragraph, if you do not remove the oxidation, it will soon rear it's ugly head. I saw this first hand within a couple weeks. The car hadn't even left the garage. It certainly wasn't as noticeable as before, but it was quite apparent. I then chose to use a compound to remove the oxidation.

My next step will be to reapply the M07 and then seal it. I'll probably use NXT 2.0 to seal it and then I'll top the NXT with M26 (just for the look).

Thanks Michael, if I ever need a dermatologist, I know who to turn to.

[Blueline]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Paint does not need to be conditioned, nor can it be.

I don't think that adding the oils to the paint are going to do anything .

How true. Auto paint is hard and impenetrable and will not absorb anything. It is not like adding Murphys oil to a fine dinning room table. I have to laugh when I read people rubbing or working in "replenishing oils" into their auto paint

[h@n4!]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

after reading this thread i wonder why did i bought the dc 2 polish for my car, did the dc 2 polish didn't affect much in my new car, or it can make difference after i put it on my car

bcoz i just bought it yesterday, and i want to put it tommorow, i hope the result will be different

thx

[Bill Davidson]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

How true. Auto paint is hard and impenetrable and will not absorb anything. It is not like adding Murphys oil to a fine dinning room table. I have to laugh when I read people rubbing or working in "replenishing oils" into their auto paint

With products like Paint Reconditioning Cream and Gold Class Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner etc. in the name, it's not difficult to understand how people could think this way.

Nothing is solid at a molecular level, so how can paint be impenetrable and unable to absorb anything?

Can someone explain this further or guide me towards more detailed info.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

How true. Auto paint is hard and impenetrable and will not absorb anything. It is not like adding Murphys oil to a fine dinning room table. I have to laugh when I read people rubbing or working in "replenishing oils" into their auto paint

Nothing is solid at a molecular level, so how can paint be impenetrable and unable to absorb anything?

Can someone explain this further or guide me towards more detailed info.

Yes, paint is hard, but it is still porous. Take a badly oxidized single stage paint - you know, when red looks all pink, white and chalky - and load it up with M07 Show Car Glaze. The improvement in color and reflection is amazing, but once the M07 washes off, wears off, flashes off, etc the oxidation, chalkiness and dullness comes right back because you didn't actually remove it. But if you did not remove it, yet the finish looked that much nicer, how did you accomplish the improvement in appearance? Was it just because you put something on top of a surface that is "hard and impenetrable and will not absorb anything"? No. The product you applied, in this case M07, actually got down into the pores of the paint. And oxidized paint has much more open pores than, for example, a healthy modern clear coat does. That's a bit part of the reason that a pure polish shows so much more dramatically on single stage paints than it does on a catalyzed, modern clear coat. Now, you may not be getting these oils really deep into the paint, but even the color coat on a single stage paint job is only about 2 mils (2/1000 inch) thick anyway. Most of (well, really all of) what you're doing when working on any paint system is happening in the top 0.5 mil (that magical number where, on a clear coat paint, if you remove that much you're in big trouble) which is a scant 5/10,000 inch. So you don't have to get very deep into the paint to make a big difference - positive or negative.

[Fly Bye]

Re: Amount of Polish within Products

Paint does not need to be conditioned, nor can it be. There is some true that as paint ages it becomes more porous, but adding any amount of oils is not going to reverse this or help it.

I don't think that adding the oils to the paint are going to do anything (other then increase the visual appearance of the paint)

You can, to a degree, rejuvenate the pigment to restore the richness of color by applying a pure polish.

Part of it is infusing the oils into the pores of the paint.

A pure polish can do wonders for enhancing faded single stage paint, regardless of the color. But you are getting these oils down into the pores of the paint, into that open structure on a very fine level. And having those oils in there will help to slow down the drying out of the paint.

___________________________________________________