Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

[knighthawkblack]

I am just about ready to give my car the much needed attention. I plan to detail the exterior of my car. I have been doing a lot of research but I'm just not that certain to pull the trigger and get to work just yet. I need input on how to apply these materials or if i should be using something else.

Most of my concerns are on polishing and how I should do my polisher etc.

Two cars: 02 Acura RSX-S (paint color: nighthawkblack)
03 Lexus IS300 (dark grey)

What I bought: gold class car wash, detailing clay (mild), ultimate quik detailer, M105, M205, NXT GEN tech wax 2.0, APC, Glass Cleaner (professional line). And I have a 7" polisher








Let me know what I'm doing wrong or what I need to be careful about
What I'm planning to do:

Wash: with Gold class car wash
Clay: With detailing clay using the ultimate quik detailer as the lubricant

Polish: Okay my original plan was to go through first with the M105 then go over with the M205. But after researching and reading this article http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=63859 honestly I got a little scared.

Concerned about using M105 on an Acura
They say typically honda's (same as acura) paint is usually soft. So I was wondering if M105 is way to abrasive for my RSX. If so what should I be using? And have anybody used M105 on a Honda or Acura if so how much paint did it take off.

Paint concern
Typically what is the thickness of average paint what is considered thick, average and thin. I need to know where my concerns lie. Also if a certain area is thin should I avoid it completely? What should I do?

So after claying I was going to polish using M105 unless someone tells me otherwise. Maybe I’m going to use M205 first (I probably will/should).

These are all the pads and pad covers I have


What pads and or pad covers should I use?:
What type of pad should I use to start polishing using M205? Is it okay to use just a MF cover and just keep changing covers or what? Oh and how fast should I go while applying? I was planning on doing one panel at a time (ex: hood, bumper, fender, door, quarter panel etc)

I read about soaking your pad with water first to prep your pad. But then I saw a thread that said if youre using meguiars material you should prep your pad with the ultimate quik detailer. And if so how do I do that? Do I just spray it (if so how much) on the pad then apply M205?

Also does M205 and M105 when applied give a wet water look. Like thick water has been spread across the paint? Shown in this picture below




I don’t know how many pad and or pad covers I will need. Tell me what you guys do. Or if you use pad covers at all? I know about “cleaning your pad on the fly” But wouldn’t I need at least 3 pads 1 for M105 M205 and for the wax? Or could I just change pad covers?

This was going to be my method that I got from the article I mentioned above

• Spread or dab polish around the panel with the machine switched off.
• Spread the polish with one or two passes at slow speed (between 2 and 3).
• Begin to work the polish in for three or four passes at medium speed (around 4).
• Thoroughly work the polish until the residue goes clear at high speed (between 5 and 6).
• Buff off residue and assess result.

Do I buff by hand or do I use the polisher? I would think I just wipe it off by hand right? Also Do I really need to tape a bunch of stuff up? What do you guys do?

After the polishing I would start my waxing.

Wax:
Using a clean cover (or should it be both a clean cover and pad?) Or should I apply with a pad?

The method I would do would be the same as polishing? Someone please confirm.


The interior I was just going to use the APC 10:1 and 4:1 where needed. And do a pressure washer on the engine bay. Do/should I dress the dash, leather seats, and door panel? What should I use? All season dressing (panels) and leather cleaner and conditioner(seats)? Or does APC do the job?

I have did a lot of research. Most of my questions are answered by just doing it. But I want to hear from some experience people to my make my first detailing job a better one with minimal mistakes.



So in summary my main questions and concerns are:
(Detailed answers will be much appreciated it most links and articles/videos I have read/seen don’t address these newb question.) I thank you guys in advance.

Concerned about using M105 on an Acura:
If it’s too strong and if so what should I be using? I want to take the least amount of steps possible but also do it right. Doing it right is more important. Do I have to do the whole car with M105 or just spots I need? Going over with M205 after will make it look all uniform. So I would guess I don’t have to right?

Paint concern
Whats the range of paint thickness. Whats very thick, average, and thin
What areas are usually thin on vehicles and should I avoid them completely?

What pads and or pad covers should I use?:
What covers in what process? I am fairly new on using a polisher. Is one polisher pad good enough and I could just change covers or what?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

First off, welcome to MOL!

Wow, you've got a lot going on here so let's see if we can address everything for you.

For starters, you've got a high speed rotary buffer there. That's fine and well as long as you know how to use it. This is not the almost fool proof dual action polisher like Meguiar's G110v2, Porter Cable 7424XP or similar but rather a tool that can get you into trouble really quickly if you don't know how to properly use it. Even best case scenario for a first timer you're going to end up with a fair amount of holograms in your black paint. It takes some time to develop the skill needed to finish hologram free with this tool, but it can be done. But self taught, and the first time around, we don't think we'd recommend this process.

That said, if you do proceed (perhaps under the guidance of someone with a good bit of experience with this tool) you really want to rethink those bonnets and get some real pads. Pick up a proper backing plate like our W68 (it will fit just fine on this tool) and a few of our W8207 Soft Buff 2.0 yellow foam polishing pads and at least one W9207 Soft Buff 2.0 black finishing pad. You would use the yellow pads for defect removal with either M105 or M205 - which one you'll need will depend on the severity of defects and hardness of paint. We've seen plenty of Honda/Acura cars with paint systems all over the map, from crazy delicate to fairly hard. You never know exactly what you've got until you start working on it, regardless of what others might say on a detailing forum.

You need to keep in mind that your average clear coat is only 2 mils thick; that's 2/1000 of an inch. As you work toward the edge of a body panel you will potentially encounter the edge of the panel, and the paint is quite a bit thinner there because of how the paint flows away from the edge as it's sprayed and dries. That's why you need to be very careful of these areas and tape them off. For example, when polishing on the door, you want to tape off the edge of the adjacent panel so as not to buff against that panel's edge. Also, you want to tape off trim, lights, emblems, etc. With a D/A polisher you do this to prevent getting buildup of paint cleaner, polish, etc in the edges but with a rotary you also do it for safety - to prevent damage to these pieces. Things you can do with a D/A polisher without even considering damage will indeed mess things up with a rotary. We aren't trying to scare you off here, just making sure you have a healthy respect for the power of this tool.

We see on the box that this tool is rated for 200 - 3,377 rpm; you will never use it any faster than 2,000 rpm and even that will be rare. For the most part you'd want to be in the 1,400 - 1,800 rpm range for defect correction and down to 900 - 1,100 rpm for final polishing. You probably don't even want to apply wax with this tool as most are not compatible with rotary use. And you certainly don't want to remove any product with this tool only - removal of product is best done by hand with a clean microfiber towel, and that includes compounds, paint cleaners, polishes and waxes.

Before we even get into the finer points of priming a pad, or how much paint is likely to be removed, let's talk a bit more in depth about general use of this tool. Starting with: do you have any experience at all with a rotary buffer?

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

I have zero experience. The only reason I have this tool was because I got it brand new for about $30. I have used it for headlight restoration but thats about it. I know some of the comparison with a rotary and a DA but why would it be even more difficult for me? A DA just oscillates and creates less heat. Why cant I just maybe put the pad on off center and it'll do the same? Also how would getting a new backing plate help? And what would those two pads be for? I dont like using or doing something without knowing why. I am completely new to detailing and I just want to learn. Knowing why is very important to me. Also thanks for the quick reply

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

The D/A oscillates and rotates, hence the term "dual action". Under pressure it will stop rotating and just oscillate, which is a huge part of the safety built into the tool. This minimizes the amount of heat you put into the paint, which is potentially dangerous when taken too far. The rotary buffer is a much more powerful, direct drive tool. Apply pressure with it and it won't stop spinning - the paint will give up long before the tool stops.

Since there is no oscillating movement at the head of the tool itself, merely placing the pad off center is not going to get you the same effect. In fact, it would cause problems, not the least of which is an increase in the level of defect you will impose on the paint. With the speed settings you were thinking of using you would tear your paint up pretty quickly. Honestly, we doubt anyone here would ever run that tool higher than speed 3 or 4, depending on exactly what rpm that relates to. Is there a chart that indicates actual rpm for a given speed setting?

The pads we recommended are designed specifically for quality paint correction when using either a rotary or D/A buffer. The yellow one provides a moderate degree of controlled cut that works in conjunction with the cutting ability of a given liquid, such as M105. But it's cutting ability is not so great so as to cause much marring on its own. The finishing pad is more gentle still, and the perfect match for final polishing with M205 at a slow speed.

Bottom line: the rotary is a fantastic tool that can do more work in less time than a D/A, no doubt about it. But with that added power (and it is a LOT more power) comes the very real potential for disaster. And disaster can strike before you even realize it's close. The bonnets you've got will certainly allow you to correct some defects in the paint, but if your paint is at all delicate they may do as much harm as good. There are too many posts here on MOL and other detailing forums about the horrible job someone did with a rotary buffer, and that someone was supposedly a pro who collected a fair amount of cash for the work (and damage) they did.

Now, not all damage is irreversible. Holograms may look horrible, but they're usually pretty easy to correct. They are very easy to instill with a rotary buffer, but with a high skill level you can remove them with a rotary. With almost no experience at all you could remove them with a D/A. And a D/A won't put them in there in the first place.

Honestly, we aren't all that worried about you burning through your paint here (well, maybe on an edge if you start spinning that tool really fast) but you've got a black car, and that is going to be very unforgiving. You obviously care about the car or you wouldn't be here asking questions, and you certainly wouldn't be buying the amount and type of products you have to make it look as good as possible. But there is a right and a wrong way to go about this, and we'd hate to see you jump in too quickly.

[Wobblybob]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Michael - What a great and informative reply. I have just ordered a G110v2,105, 205 and several different Soft Pads and will attempt my first my first complete detail on my 1999 Miata 10AE. This will serve as a guide along with a lot of the other helpful info on MOL that I've been researching. I'll probably have a few questions also before I start though so I'll be posting shortly (along with a few pics of the 10AE).

This has to be one of the best sites that I've ever been on. Mequiar's should be proud of you and of all of the contributors to this site. Just wanted to say thanks!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Wobblybob, thanks for the kind words! We definitely look forward to helping you get the most out of your new G110v2, and to your write up of your first experience with it.

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

So I went to the tool shop today and found these two Dual Action polishers.





What do you think are they good enough or just I just fork the money for the meguiars one? Also why would I need to buy a new backing place isnt the one I have on my rotary good enough? Whats so good about the meguiars one? And about the pads should I always use a bonnet on them or what should I do on applications with a rotary or a DA. I have no problem forking the money for a meguiars DA but what would be the difference from that and the other one. Obviously I should get a DA so I dont change a 100 dollar problem into a 1000 dollar one. And I am more than willing but a meguiars one compared to the one i found for about 30 bucks, the thrifthy-ness in my blood begs me to get the cheap one. I want youre experience opinion please. I would like to know your comments on pads and bonnets as well. Pros and cons

Thanks

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Okay I think the best thing for me is to not be a cheap arse and pony up the dough for the g110 but if/when I do what pads and such would I need to do a full detailing job?? Also as I research more and more I noticed a lot of people don't use bonnets. Why is that? Are there any advantage/disadvantages?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

The couple of orbital polishers you posted just don't have the power to accomplish any real defect correction or thorough paint cleaning. They're fine for spreading wax but that's about it.

A proper, quality D/A like our G110v2 is a far better choice overall. It's power lies squarely between these cheap orbitals and a true rotary, sort of combining the safety of an orbital with the cleaning/defect removal ability of the rotary. In fact, with a good D/A you can come close to what a rotary is capable of - it may take a bit longer in some cases, but it's a darn sight safer in the hands of a novice.

If you pick up a D/A then you'll want at least 3 or 4 of both the polishing pad and the finishing pad. If you need to cut it a bit short, get one less finishing pad than polishing pad.

Bonnets are almost never used by serious detailers (pro or hard core enthusiast) because they load up with product very quickly, they don't provide the same controlled cut as the different foam pads do, and they just don't last under the power of a good tool. A good selection of foam pads and microfiber towels is essential, and you almost can't have too many of either.

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

So need about 4 finishing pads and polishing pads. Is that because I would go through them quickly as I work or they would get loaded too much with material/dirt that I need to change them in one session (i'm assuming).

I'm aware that theres buffing pads and cutting pads. Would I need any of them?

You also mentioned before when we were talking about the rotary that I need a backing plate would I need one for the G110v2?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

If you were to pick up half a dozen pads we would recommend going with 4 of the W8207 Soft Buff 2.0 Polishing Pads and 2 of the W9207 Soft Buff 2.0 Finishing pads. We don't recommend using the W7207 Soft Buff 2.0 Cutting pad with a D/A polisher as it tends to be overly aggressive and will usually haze the paint.

As for a backing plate with the G110v2, it comes with W68DA backing plate which is specifically designed for use with the Soft Buff 2.0 pads. You do not need to purchase a separate backing plate.

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Thanks Michael. I am looking to make this purchase soon. I found this which should be good for me.

I am assuming the polishing pad will be used for the M105 and the finishing pad will be the M205 and NXT wax?

When applying these three on a car M105, M205, NXT wax how many pads does each usually take (on a coupe)?

Now since I'm going to be using a DA now do I need to tape any parts of my car before I start with the M105?

Is M105 really the best thing to use or would it be too strong and endanger of taking off too much paint? I was going to start a test spot using the M205 and if that didnt work I would go M105 but is there something in the middle that I should be trying?

I know if I go too aggressive it will take off too much paint and I will be force to repaint. Is M105 even capable should I be concerned or should I just go for it if M205 is too weak?

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Can someone answer some of my questions please? My DA just came in but I'm scared I don't want to have wrong information. Is m105 too aggresive do I need a medium cut between m105 and m205 and if so what?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

My apologies for missing this originally.

In all honesty, you're probably better off going with Ultimate Compound rather than M105 - the cut is a bit less, but UC is so much more forgiving when used on a D/A than M105; it gives a much longer buffing cycle, creates almost no dust, and is super easy to wipe off. Remember, M105 is our strongest cutting product (by a good amount, too) and was originally designed for rotary use to remove sanding marks. In the vast majority of case, for routine swirl removal, it's overkill. Plain and simple.

You are correct in assuming that the yellow polishing pads would be used with the UC, but M205 can be used with either that or the black finishing pad. That's going to depend a bit on how the paint responds and exactly what you're trying to accomplish with it - fine defect removal or just some increased clarity to an already corrected finish. The NXT should always be used with a black finishing pad.

As to how many pads you might need..... we'd go with 2 or 3 yellow pads for a single session to complete an entire car. Another dedicated pad for the M205 (two if you're doing some correction) and just one for application of the NXT. This is really sort of a bare minimum of pads.

Taping is optional. You aren't going to cause any damage to trim by not taping when using a G110v2, but you may have to go back and clean up a lot of product from textured black vinyl, rubber and plastic trim. Taping is more of a housekeeping thing when using this tool as opposed to be an actual safety measure when using a rotary.

[knighthawkblack]

Re: Almost ready for my first detail: But need help

Thanks for the reply

So I should buy a bottle of Ultimate compound? I was looking around and watching more videos and I found m82, m80, and m83. Where would ultimate compound lie in aggressiveness in relations to these?

Should I go UC then m105 if it doesnt do the job then m205? Do I even need to m205 after UC (is it recommended)? I would assume so since m205 is more of a polish.

Also is it worth my while to get m82, m80, and m83 instead of the UC. Or is UC, m105, m205 good enough for most jobs.

I know I'm new to all this but I would like to know/learn as much as I can. Thanks