Names for the car care cycle steps

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Sorry, typo on my part. M20 has cleaners, M21 does not. I'm going to change that in my original post.









stupid fingers

[Tuck91]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

No, M21 does not have cleaners in it.

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Happy to, Mary!

Gold Class & NXT are polish waxes, meaning they both contain polish and wax in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

M06, M21, ColorX and Cleaner Wax (duh) are cleaner waxes, meaning they contain both cleaners and wax in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

Deep Crystal Carnuaba Wax and M26 would then be considered pure waxes in the sense that they contain no cleaners and no polish. They server one purpose only - protection.

M205, M82, M80, M83, SwirlX and M09 are cleaner/polishes, meaning they contain both cleaners and polish in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

M07, M05, M03 and Deep Crystal Polish are pure polishes, meaning of course that they contain no abrasives or waxes, and are therefore only gloss enhancers.

Ultimate Compound, Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner (discontinued) and M04/M02/M01 are dedicated paint cleaners as Meguiar's defines the term, although Ultimate Compound and M04 walk a fine line between just being paint cleaners and being outright compounds (compound being a very powerful cutting product designed for fast removal of extremely heavy defects).

M105, M91, M85 and M84 fall into the category of compound. These are generally not suitable for use by hand or D/A although recent advances in technology have changed that in the case of M105.

Wow, lots of information in this post worthy of keeping. So 21 has cleaners in it? For some reason I thought it was more similar to NXT 2.0 as a sealant.

So here's the trick question. The products that you refer to as compounds, these are not taught in the 5-step cycle, presumably because you would ordinarily have to use a rotary for them.

If there were a step for them, what would that step be called? For want of a better word, I have seen it just called "compounding" when referring to use of a heavily cutting compound, and sometimes what Meguiars calls cleaners and cleaning to be called "polishing compounds" and "polishing." If there is anything close to an industry standard, that is what I have found.

But again, as you say, none of this is universal. I come from the South originally, and I would say, back in those days we did call car wax "polish," probably because there was both wax and mild abrasives in the waxes they sold then and it did kind of bring up a shine in the paint as well as protect it.

[CieraSL]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

So, Shane, NXT is indeed a polish wax (well, polish sealant, if you want to get technical!)

Interesting. I did not know that. Well, you learn something new every day!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Michael, I wonder if you could please clarify your statement here, because I see what appears to be confusion over this all the time:

Gold Class and NXT are both polish/waxes, meaning they combine those two steps in one.

Happy to, Mary!

Gold Class & NXT are polish waxes, meaning they both contain polish and wax in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

M06, M20, ColorX and Cleaner Wax (duh) are cleaner waxes, meaning they contain both cleaners and wax in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

Deep Crystal Carnuaba Wax and M26 would then be considered pure waxes in the sense that they contain no cleaners and no polish. They server one purpose only - protection.

M205, M82, M80, M83, SwirlX and M09 are cleaner/polishes, meaning they contain both cleaners and polish in the way Meguiar's defines these terms.

M07, M05, M03 and Deep Crystal Polish are pure polishes, meaning of course that they contain no abrasives or waxes, and are therefore only gloss enhancers.

Ultimate Compound, Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner (discontinued) and M04/M02/M01 are dedicated paint cleaners as Meguiar's defines the term, although Ultimate Compound and M04 walk a fine line between just being paint cleaners and being outright compounds (compound being a very powerful cutting product designed for fast removal of extremely heavy defects).

M105, M91, M85 and M84 fall into the category of compound. These are generally not suitable for use by hand or D/A although recent advances in technology have changed that in the case of M105.



So, Shane, NXT is indeed a polish wax (well, polish sealant, if you want to get technical!)

[CieraSL]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Michael, I wonder if you could please clarify your statement here, because I see what appears to be confusion over this all the time:

Gold Class and NXT are both polish/waxes, meaning they combine those two steps in one.

I know Gold Class wax has some polishing oils in it, but I don't believe NXT 2.0 does, so I am a bit confused on this statement as well.

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Gold Class and NXT are both polish/waxes, meaning they combine those two steps in one.

Does it mean they contain polishes as in pure polishes, or does it mean they contain polishes as in abrasives, or what is sometimes called "cleaners."

In otherwords, these are not cleaner waxes are they, even mild cleaner waxes? They are only waxes with pure polishes to add some shine, is that correct?

Because I get the impression people confuse this statement that Gold Class and NXT 2.0 have light abrasives in them.

And yes, polish/clean, that is where I find the terminology not well defined at times, but I think people can tell from the context what you are talking about, at least most of the time.

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Michael, I had inadvertently put claying in the step with washing because for some reason I thought that was where Meguiar's had it. Both processes involve above-surface contaminants, but claying and the other prep steps are less routine. I changed it back to step 2 later on in my revisions.

I suppose you could break claying out as a separate step too, just depending on what you are trying to accomplish with the 5 step cycle. I had the impression it is mostly a teaching aid for people just being introduced to the Meguiar's products.

Michael, I wonder if you could please clarify your statement here, because I see what appears to be confusion over this all the time:

Gold Class and NXT are both polish/waxes, meaning they combine those two steps in one.

Continued below:

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

A couple of things specifically regarding Wal-Mart and other retailers:

There is huge competition for shelf space at all the major retailers, and their buyers will pick and choose what products they think will sell well in their stores. The product mix carried by each retail chain does vary, but Wal-Mart carries a higher SKU count of Meguiar's consumer products than any other retailer in the world. They actually picked up both Ultimate Compound and SwirlX but that is no guarantee that your local store has it in stock. Store managers will also pick and choose what they want to stock, and those decisions can vary by region.

We've seen cases where, for example, a high shine tire product sells extremely well in one part of the country, but another part of the country prefers low shine tire products. What plays in New York City doesn't always play in Peoria, or something like that. Interestingly enough, more retail chains picked up SwirlX than Ultimate Compound, meaning SwirlX is a more widely available product than UC. Yet overall, UC is by far the better selling product. Go figure.

Above and beyond that, it might interest you to know that something like 80% of the car owning public doesn't even wax their own car. Most are simply content to run it through the local car wash every week or two. And even those who do will often refer to the wax as "polish" - our Call Center hears this all the time. And since we take calls from all over the country and talk to everyone from body shop owners to the person who waxes once a year (if they're in the mood) we hear all kinds of different terms for different products and processes. Sometimes it's simply mistaken identity, like people who call Ultimate Compound a wax, but sometimes it's just the local colloquialism and people refer to waxing as polishing. That also happens to be the common usage of the term polish in the UK. And the lines only get further blurred when products start to combine multiple steps in one. M80, M83, M205 and SwirlX are all, technically, cleaner/polishes since they all contain an abrasive cleaner as well as polishing oils. Gold Class and NXT are both polish/waxes, meaning they combine those two steps in one.

Many here have stated that the industry as a whole lacks true standardization of terms, and we have to agree with them. Yes, it can be confusing, perplexing, frustrating and maybe even downright annoying. But is it hurting a pro detailer? We really doubt it. Can it help a pro detailer? Maybe. If you are serious about pursuing professional detailing in your area, an area that you have said is sorely lacking in this type of service, then perhaps it's a great way for you to take hold of the situation and start getting the word out. You will have to educate your customers one by one (as most any detailer has to do) since the majority of them don't even know how to look for a swirl mark. Amazing, but true. Just talk to the car owners at Barrett-Jackson or a major car show (except, maybe, Pebble Beach or Amelia Island..... but even then........)

But to get back to your original post that started this thread and your suggestion of:

1. Wash and clay using car shampoo and detailing clay as previously defined.
2. Polish with a finishing polish like 205 or SwirlX to level paint surface to permanently remove swirls and light defects from clear coat or single stage paint and to bring out the shine and reflectivity in the paint.
3. Glaze using a glaze like 05 or 07 to add depth of shine, especially to darker colored cars.
4. Protect with paint protectants as previously defined.
5. Maintain as previously defined.

Really the only thing we would alter here would be to leave Step 1 as just washing. Take the claying part out of Step 1 and keep in Step 2 with the paint cleaning step. The reason being that washing really is a stand alone process. It removes all the loose contaminants from the surface and allows you to better determine what sort of paint defects/issues/problems you need to deal with using more specialized methods.

And all of those defects/issues/problems fall into one of two categories: above surface bonded contaminants and below surface defects. As you well know, clay is used to remove those defects/issues/problems that fall into the above surface bonded contaminants group while some sort of abrasive liquid, what we teach as being a paint cleaner, is used to correct all of the defects/issues/problems that are found below the surface. These two steps are combined into Step 2, which is the all encompassing "Surface Prep" part of the whole mix. It deeply cleans the paint, removing all of these imperfections. And there other companies with products that they refer to as "paintwork cleansers" etc, so we aren't totally alone in this.

Now, if you find the semantics of "polish" and "cleaning" to be your major sticking points (and we'll admit, you're not alone) then that's fine. There is a lot of confusion surrounding this, mostly because there isn't a lot of standardization in the industry and a lot of words are used interchangeably. And again, that can vary from region to region. But at virtually every Saturday Class we teach we are almost blinded by the light bulbs coming on over everyone's head as the process becomes clear to them while we go through the 5 Step Paint Care Cycle.

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Scoobie, I am like you. I think a product with chemicals or a light abrasive in it can be called a cleaner and be used for cleaning if you are removing soil, fingerprints, or other contaminants from the surface but the integrity of what you are cleaning remains intact. For example, using Bon Ami, which has mild abrasives, on the ceramic tiles of your bathroom floor, your sink, or your bathtub. You remove surface dirt, but the tile or ceramic itself is not compromised because of their hardness and the mildness of the abrasive.

If you have a surface that is clean but not shiny and you do something to it to make it shiny, whether by abrading off the top of the surface and polishing up the new surface to a shine or simply adding oils to it like furniture oil to certain woods, I call that polishing. Polishing silver with a mild abrasive or putting oil on furniture would be an example.

And a product could have abrasives or chemicals in it that clean and oils that polish simultaneously. like Orange Glo wood cleaner and polish. It mainly cleans but also leaves the surface shiny.

But, as you pointed out, the product 205 is called a polish on the label. It can be used with a dual action polisher with a polishing pad. And I think Meguiar's is as fully aware as anybody how awkward and nonintuitive the use of the word "clean" for the step 2 of the paint care cycle, but if they called it claying, compounding, and polishing, well that would be 3 steps, and then that might seem too complicated. Who really knows. But the bottom line is, that is what the industry calls those steps. So no matter which term you use, people on this forum will understand what you mean.

[Scoobie]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps


To up the Ante a bit, Megs 205 is a mild abrassive. It is listed on their website under

Paint Cleaners/Compounds

"Permanently removes swirls and light defects from all paints".


It says "polish" right on the bottle.





Go figure. This subject is like beating a dead horse. I have lurked on these, and other detailing forums since about 2006-2007, and I'll tell ya what, I'm over it. Megs like to use the term "clean", & and I like to use the word "polish" to refine & make smooth, level & shiny. To each his/her own, I'm over it.

As far as IDA, they're are just a business trying to make money just like anyone else.

[Scoobie]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps


I believe that the act of abrading, refining, making smooth, etc., can be called "cleaning". Whether you're using a heavy abrassive, a light abrassive, light, or heavy duty chemicals, in essence, you're cleaning. There are chemical cleaners, such as "surfactants", which offer no abrading properties.

I am more familiar with the term " chemical cleaner", than I am with the term "Abrassive" cleaner. The word cleaner is more associated with chemicals than they are with abrassives, but...Comet, & Ajax, which ARE cleaners, are mildly abrassive. Even though the majority may (or may not) associate cleaners with chemicals, the fact is, when you use an abrassive on a surface, whether it's painted or not, is the act of "cleaning". "That paint cleaned right up". You're cleaning those scratches right up. There can very well be bonded debris on the finish. When you use an abrassive, the debris is being "cleaned" up. See what I mean?

I totally agree with Meguiars usage of the word "cleaner". What I don't agree with, is Meguiars usage of the word "polish". I say that, because, I was taught from a very young age, that anytime a method used to make a surface smooth & shiny (level/flat) is called polishing or buffing, although, technically, can be called "cleaning".

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Sorry, didn't give you the address:

International Detailing Association

http://www.the-ida.com/

There may be others and I'm not advocating this or any other particular organization or association. Just an example to help you on your quest.

Again, perhaps some senior forum members will provide additional information.

Thanks, wifpd! When you said that, I thought you were giving an example name! I will certainly check them out.

[wifpd4]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Sorry, didn't give you the address:

International Detailing Association

http://www.the-ida.com/

There may be others and I'm not advocating this or any other particular organization or association. Just an example to help you on your quest.

Again, perhaps some senior forum members will provide additional information.

[Mary S]

Re: Names for the car care cycle steps

Mary,

Thank you for picking the coronary bypass surgery as an analogy. Problems of the heart touched me long before concerned car care.

Generally speaking St. John's Mercy Medical Center in St. Louis, the University of Iowa Hospital in Iowa City, the Mayo Clinic In Rochester, and John Hopkins in Baltimore all teach and perform coronary bypass surgery. The tools, the medications and the procedures are similar, but specifically the operation is different at Mayo then at U of Iowa or John Hopkins or St. John's. People make health care decisions based on any advantages or suggested improvements one doctor, one hospital or one medical center may offer. Although generally speaking they are offering "coronary bypass surgery". (This discussion of course discounts any processes stipulated by insurance companies, HMOs or what the government may be telling us.) I'm not sure who the governing agencies are for coronary bypass surgery, perhaps the American Medical Association. The AMA would then set the minimum standards for this medical procedure.

Mary you did start this thread as a suggestion to rename or at a minimum clarify a process. I do however wonder if there is not an organization similar to the AMA of the medical world in the detailing world you shouldn't be appealing, something like the "International Detailing Association". The folks that set the standards for which you wish to have in place and may wish to change. Keep in mind Meguiar's may not belong to this or any other such organization. As I'm sure you are aware from your software experience, not everyone follows standards and in some case ever wishes to follow.

Perhaps some of this forum's more senior members can direct you to that organization(s).

An operation such as coronary bypass surgery, just like detailing, is likely to differ in some aspect from surgery to surgery even with the same doctor performing the same operation in the same operating room on the same day on different patients, because what he finds along the way will be a bit different. And after all, there are bypasses, double, triple, quadruples. There are other variations. They may start out anticipating to do an operation one way and find when the patient is open that they must do it another way. And in general, yes a particular surgeon may be more skilled and have a better reputation as another, just as with detailers.

As far as a professional association for detailers, I believe there is one. I don't remember the name of it, but I saw it on the web page of a particular detailer. I was unable to find any presence of it on the internet when I searched for it, perhaps an email address of someone you could send for information. There is another professional organization that is fairly active called Professional Car Washing and Detailing. Their biggest focus is the Car Washing aspect.

As it turns out, the detailing industry as a whole has already standardized its terminology in pretty much the same way as I put it forth by following the labeling on Meguiar's products. Most of the terms probably date back to as long as there have been paint shops to paint cars. When a car is painted, it is necessary to use compounds, rubbing compounds and polishing compounds, to bring up the shine in the paint. This may not be true anymore for factory paint but certainly in the body work industry it is true, depending on the technology of the paint that is used. The technology and advancement in the chemistry of those compounds have of course improved greatly since the body work industry started, as has that of paint.

So I think the end result of the thread I started about clarity of use of terms was that there wasn't really as big a problem as I thought there was. I just happened to get my start in the detailing community here, and I felt that where Meguiar's was selling their products to off-the-shelf consumers, there might be better ways to attract those consumers to what those products do.

Using Meguiar's definitions make it easy to define "detailer" or "detailing."

Detailing: Giving the surfaces of a vehicle a thorough cleaning and application of protectant as appropriate.

Professional detailer: Someone who gives the surfaces of your vehicle a thorough cleaning and application of protectant as appropriate as a profession.

So paint correction is lost in that definition. Even though it conforms to Meguiar's definitions of the processes involved, it doesn't differentiate the fact that a professional detail can remove a tiny layer of paint and bring up the polish and shine of the paint such that minor imperfections are permanently removed, even to the point of making the paint look brand new in some cases, or that the car care enthusiast can do the same thing with certain off the shelf products.

So, people who think that a professional detailing service will do nothing but give your car's interior and exterior a thorough cleaning and protection, just like a house cleaning service will give the surface of your house a thorough cleaning and/or polishing as appropriate, they may consider it a luxury that they don't want, just like most people do their own house cleaning and don't pay someone else to do it.

And to the population that has "some" awareness of detailing as a profession, my impression has been that this is what most of them think professional detailers do.

So yes, a professional organization would be good for setting standards for definitions as well as bringing accurate public awareness of the detailing profession. Collectively, it is much easier to educate the public and to advocate for the profession than it is for every detailer, with limited resources to do so, to do this on his own for his own business.