And just how thick is clear coat?

[Brook]

I'm finding that despite my best efforts at protecting my paint, swirls and scratches just happen again (in different places, so I'm pretty sure I'm not just filling in the old one with product).

That being the case, is it possible to remove swirls and scratches so often as to go right through the clear coat and down to the paint? Can a home detailer do too much correcting with chemicals and a DA?

How do I know when enough is enough?

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Clearcoat is about 1.5 to 2 mils thick on factory paint, and considerably more on repainted body panels. When you abrade the clearcoat while removing defects such as swirls and light scratches, you are removing micron thin layers of clear.

You can safely maintain your paint through periodic applications of mild paint cleaner/waxes, with occasional full corrections using stronger polishes and compounds in conjunction with a DA polisher. The general and unofficial rule of thumb for a lot of folks here seems to be a full correction every six months, although personally I try to go one year between full correction polishings.

Less is more. Remember the unofficial MOL mantra: Use the least aggressive method!

[Murr1525]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

On a daily driver, swirls and spots will happen. I tend to do real swirl removal once a year, rather than every time I see one.

As long as you are using proper products and techniques, it is hard to do to much.

But I would be curious about what is causing swirls all the time, what kind of tools, when else the paint is getting touched, etc you are using, since you shouldnt be getting bad/noticable swirls often.

[davey g-force]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Clearcoat is about 1.5 to 2 mils thick on factory paint, and considerably more on repainted body panels. When you abrade the clearcoat while removing defects such as swirls and light scratches, you are removing micron thin layers of clear.

Clearly, can you clarify this statement?

By "mils" do you mean mm (millimeters)?
And by micron, do you mean one thousandth of a mm?

By that logic, there's very little to worry about in terms of abrading through the clear coat.

[scottphys]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

One mil is 0.001 inch. One micron is 10^-6 meters. So they are actually in different units (metric vs english).

I drive mine daily and I'm not as picky as I should be I suppose, but I do a good polishing (with correction if needed) only once a year. But I wax and maintain the c*** out of it all year long!!!

[Andrew Wilson]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Clearly, can you clarify this statement?

Hi Davey,

I can clarify the statement. Meguiar's works hand in hand with auto manufactures and paint suppliers. As a general rule, most OEM factory clear coats have in between 1.5 to 2.0 mils of clear coat

By "mils" do you mean mm (millimeters)?
And by micron, do you mean one thousandth of a mm?

No, when we refer to "mils" we are speaking in reference to paint thickness. The following conversion table should help you.
1 Mil standard = .001 inches or .0254 mm.

By that logic, there's very little to worry about in terms of abrading through the clear coat.

This is a loaded question. Yes and No. Most day to day consumers will never go through the clear coat using UC. However, if someone is using our W5000 on a rotary with 105 at 1800 RPM, it is very easy to go through the CC.

.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Clearly, can you clarify this statement?

By "mils" do you mean mm (millimeters)?
And by micron, do you mean one thousandth of a mm?

By that logic, there's very little to worry about in terms of abrading through the clear coat.

Hi Davey,

I can clarify the statement. Meguiar's works hand in hand with auto manufactures and paint suppliers. As a general rule, most OEM factory clear coats have in between 1.5 to 2.0 mils of clear coat



No, when we refer to "mils" we are speaking in reference to paint thickness. The following conversion table should help you.
1 Mil standard = .001 inches or .0254 mm.



This is a loaded question. Yes and No. Most day to day consumers will never go through the clear coat using UC. However, if someone is using our W5000 on a rotary with 105 at 1800 RPM, it is very easy to go through the CC.

.

Yeah, sorry bout that. Misspoke my measurements.

Darn the 1 minute edit rule!!!

More correctly, I should have stated the layer of abraded clear coat in micrometers (1000 µm = 1 mm), not microns.

For an excellent illustration of the paint layers and how deep various defects penetrate through the clear, base, and primer coats, check out Removing Paint Defectsby TH0001 (Todd)

[davey g-force]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I can't help myself, I like to put numbers to everything. So here is how I understand it:

CC thickness = 2 mil = 2 x 0.0254mm = 0.0508mm
Thickness of paint abraded = 0.001mm

So 0.0508/0.001 = 50.8.

So I can perform approximately 50 defect corrections to any one area of my paint before going through the clear coat. Not too bad really, that's 25 years worth of 6-monthly corrections.

Obviously the above numbers are approximate only but it gives a rough idea just for peace of mind.

[Lasthope05]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I can't help myself, I like to put numbers to everything. So here is how I understand it:

CC thickness = 2 mil = 2 x 0.0254mm = 0.0508mm
Thickness of paint abraded = 0.001mm

So 0.0508/0.001 = 50.8.

So I can perform approximately 50 defect corrections to any one area of my paint before going through the clear coat. Not too bad really, that's 25 years worth of 6-monthly corrections.

Obviously the above numbers are approximate only but it gives a rough idea just for peace of mind.

This is the wrong way to think about it. Just because you can do 50 corrections before you touch base coat doesnt mean its not detrimental to the paint. People fail to see its not about buffing through paint but preserving your clear coats UV protection thats the most important thing. Thinning out CC dramatically reduces its ability to protect the paint from UV damages resulting in CC failure.

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I can't help myself, I like to put numbers to everything. So here is how I understand it:

CC thickness = 2 mil = 2 x 0.0254mm = 0.0508mm
Thickness of paint abraded = 0.001mm

So 0.0508/0.001 = 50.8.

So I can perform approximately 50 defect corrections to any one area of my paint before going through the clear coat. Not too bad really, that's 25 years worth of 6-monthly corrections.

Obviously the above numbers are approximate only but it gives a rough idea just for peace of mind.

A lot of it is dependent upon your technique and what equipment you are using. And it's not always unifirm. You might only have to abrade 5-10 micrometers on light defect areas, or you might have to remove 100-200 micrometers on heavier defect areas before you get the result that satisfies you.

Ideally, I would think that you should probably limit your corrections to 2x a year, even if it's a daily driver and subjected to more frequent swirling and scratching. Proper and regular maintenance using waxes, detail sprays, and non-invasive wash methods should make this a realistic schedule.

Just avoid becoming an OCD detailer.

[davey g-force]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

This is the wrong way to think about it. Just because you can do 50 corrections before you touch base coat doesnt mean its not detrimental to the paint. People fail to see its not about buffing through paint but preserving your clear coats UV protection thats the most important thing. Thinning out CC dramatically reduces its ability to protect the paint from UV damages resulting in CC failure.

Fair point, thanks.

Just avoid becoming an OCD detailer.

Oops, too late! lol

[Brook]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Just avoid becoming an OCD detailer.

Unfortunately, that's probably me, too. When I say I noticed new swirl marks what I should have clarified is that they are truly very minor--they might even be leftovers from my previous detailing attempt since that was my first effort with a DA. My problem is that I'm after a perfect, flawless finish inasmuch as this car is my "baby" that I've waited so long for. I go nuts if I find any little (and I mean little) defect that no one else would see unless they knew exactly where to look and what to look for. The car actually looks fabulous, even in sunlight.

I appreciate the information and will try to keep the full detailing down to every 6-12 months or so, depending on the seriousness of the problem. In the meantime, I assume it's OK to use Deep Crystal Polish and a companion wax as often as I like.

[Murr1525]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Deep Crystal Polish is non-abrasive, and can be used often.

Even SwirlX can be used often, but it can be used more gently to clean, or more strongly to remove swirls, etc. Depending how minor things are, SwirlX gently may do it. Its the 'more strongly' I try to cut back on.

[TOGWT]

Re: And just how thick is clear coat?

Removing more that 0.5 mil (12µ) of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure as UV protection percolates to the top of the clear coat; as a point of reference a sheet of copy paper is 3.5Mil (89µ)

A surface scratch that will `catch' your fingernail is approximately 0.04 Mil (1.0 µ) deep will usually require wet sanding and refinishing.

Using a medium abrasive polish and a rotary polisher will remove approximately 0. 1 Mil (3µ) from the paint surface (typically 4 passes at 1500-1800 RPM) but there are many variables such as polish/compound and speed / pressure used that may affect the paint removed)

There comes a point when you must judge wither removing a scratch will compromise the clear coat and if so you’ll have to ‘live’ with the imperfection. If you have reservations about the amount of paint surface removed or the amount of paint coating remaining the use of a paint thickness gauge (PTG) is arbitrary

Paint thickness will often depend upon the OEM paint specification, which can vary by vehicle assembly plant. It’s interesting to note that painters must now demonstrate proficiency with an electronic paint thickness gauge in order to become certified to perform paint refinish warranty work for General Motors Corp. (GM) vehicles.

These numbers are offered as a guide only, as there are too many variables to provide any more than an approximation.