Another boutique wax debate

[ZoranC]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

1) There is an awful lot of BS regarding what you are told is in certain waxes
2) There is an awful lot of BS regarding what ACTUALLY is in certain waxes (ie what is there but you're not told about)
3) Carnauba content is a poor way to assess overall performance and is overrated/overmarketd
4) 'Natural' claims tend to be overstated
5) Waxes and sealants cross over all the time, to differentiate them is almost meaningless these days
6) The prep is far more important than people realise when it comes to overall wax performance
7) Waxes don't add much to the look, but are there mainly for protection - prep is the stage that adds the most to gloss levels
8) As certain desirable wax characteristics go up, certain other desirable characteristics may go down (typically ease of use or 'naturalness' is traded against durability)
9) It can be easier getting high performance from synthetic ingredients than natural ones
10) Never believe the label or what the manufacturer says

In my personal experience I have found every single one of these to be a fact. I am sure that every single one of them can result in lengthy discussions on their own but ones I personally like emphasizing in discussions with friends are # 6 and 7 (along with few not directly mentioned, like value of inexpensive vs. expensive waxes).

In any case I find it is little bit ironic that has been posted by him when his company is making and selling eight (count them, 8) different waxes.

[Calais]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

As stated in my previous post, I have different LSP's for different reasons (some of them "boutique"), much like I have Gold Class wash soap and ONR; they both do the same thing (wash the car) but through different means and in different situations. ONR might cost a lot more but it is a different product.

[Trojan fan]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

I find it ineresting that you state Meguiars case for

Simple economics.

Not to steal the thread but, most people know about the $20 special at Target. How can Meguiars put that MSRP and make a profit along with the retailer making a profit? When the NXT 2.0 alone cost $17, and with all the other cleaners the box priced sepratly at around $40? Are the margins that good?

[seth1066]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

I would bet that in a blind test that one could not tell the difference visually between a very expensive wax and a Meguiar's product.

[akimel]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

I would bet that in a blind test that one could not tell the difference visually between a very expensive wax and a Meguiar's product.

It's easy enough to set up a blind wax test to test your belief. Model it on Dave KG's Detailing World test. Get six identical cars from a local dealer. Get a group of good detailers to clean, polish and wax them as well as they can. And then get a group of people (25-50) to rate their favorites, not know which car is which.

From Meguiar's waxes I would suggest NXT and Gold Class (perhaps the new one that is just being released). And then compare them to four other waxes: Souveran, Collinite 915, P21S 100%, and Blackfire Wet Diamond. I would love to see the results from such a blind test.

Come on guys, set up a test.

[seth1066]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

It's easy enough to set up a blind wax test to test your belief. Model it on Dave KG's Detailing World test. Get six identical cars from a local dealer. Get a group of good detailers to clean, polish and wax them as well as they can. And then get a group of people (25-50) to rate their favorites, not know which car is which.

From Meguiar's waxes I would suggest NXT and Gold Class (perhaps the new one that is just being released). And then compare them to four other waxes: Souveran, Collinite 915, P21S 100%, and Blackfire Wet Diamond. I would love to see the results from such a blind test.

Come on guys, set up a test.

My idea was small sections of a single panel with the different waxes applied for a direct comparison. But Dave has pretty much come to the same conclusion I have:

"For me, the biggest take home message has to be the inconsistency in the results. Now this doesn't point to a poor test, but rather for me points to a fact that many have said all along: you simply cannot tell which wax is which on looks alone, on a well prepped car. Money will categorically not buy you a better finish IMHO and it is my feeling that the test results prove this conclusively. This was obvious to me when prepping the cars in the garage - the efforts going into the machine finish transformed the look of the cars, but adding the wax delivered nothing tenable extra to the looks - regardless of whether it was Collinite or Royale!"

So, do you grab the $50 or more wax or the Meguiar's for a fraction of the price? Meg's for me, every time.

[RaskyR1]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

In the tests that I have conducted, I found the difference between waxes to be noticeable when the sun was low in the sky. At mid day with the sun directly overhead, a difference could not be seen. This was with about 15-20 others looking at the test panels.

In the early morning and late afternoon the difference that we saw was the darkening effect between the panels.


I agree with all 10 of those comments BTW.

[seth1066]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

In the tests that I have conducted, I found the difference between waxes to be noticeable when the sun was low in the sky. At mid day with the sun directly overhead, a difference could not be seen. This was with about 15-20 others looking at the test panels.

In the early morning and late afternoon the difference that we saw was the darkening effect between the panels.


I agree with all 10 of those comments BTW.

What were the differences? Would it show up in photos?

[RaskyR1]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

What were the differences? Would it show up in photos?

Some of the waxes made the paint look darker/richer. You can kind of see it in the pic but the sun was getting close to mid day when I took it....some finger prints on a few of them.

[RaskyR1]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

Same hood with Dodo Juice SN, Fuzion, and Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0.

In this test SN seem to make the paint a little more clear than the other two when examined under the dual xenon. Out doors if full sun no difference could be seen.

[ZoranC]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

It's easy enough to set up a blind wax test to test your belief. Model it on Dave KG's Detailing World test. Get six identical cars from a local dealer. Get a group of good detailers to clean, polish and wax them as well as they can.

Actually, IMHO that was the wrong way to test. IMHO it introduced huge inconsistency in the prep (different people with different techniques and IIRC different products/tools too) and when 95% of final look is in the prep you are putting huge question mark over whether wax A would have been a winner if that car was prepared by person B and not person C.

[seth1066]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

Actually, IMHO that was the wrong way to test. IMHO it introduced huge inconsistency in the prep (different people with different techniques and IIRC different products/tools too) and when 95% of final look is in the prep you are putting huge question mark over whether wax A would have been a winner if that car was prepared by person B and not person C.

I agree and Rasky's method is exactly what I had in mind. It takes out those extra variables, but both still got the expected results which is no big whoop on whether it's a $100 paste or good ol' Meguiar's.

[akimel]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

I agree and Rasky's method is exactly what I had in mind. It takes out those extra variables, but both still got the expected results which is no big whoop on whether it's a $100 paste or good ol' Meguiar's.

It does remove the variable of preparation (though i think that variable is significantly reduced when good detailers are doing the prep work); but many insist that one needs to compare entire cars in order to get a real feel for different waxes.

[TH0001]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

Actually, IMHO that was the wrong way to test. IMHO it introduced huge inconsistency in the prep (different people with different techniques and IIRC different products/tools too) and when 95% of final look is in the prep you are putting huge question mark over whether wax A would have been a winner if that car was prepared by person B and not person C.

Just so we don't confuse people with misinformation, the test carried about by Dave KG had the same people polish the same panels on each car.

The same guy polished each hood, the same guy polished the same door, etc.

If guy A did all of the hoods and fenders, guy B did all of the doors, and guy C did the trunk and roof, how could you get more accurate results?

What question mark could there be?

[RaskyR1]

Re: Another boutique wax debate

It does remove the variable of preparation (though i think that variable is significantly reduced when good detailers are doing the prep work); but many insist that one needs to compare entire cars in order to get a real feel for different waxes.

While I can definitely see the reasoning behind this, I also think having test panels about a half inch apart is a better way to see a real difference...if there is one. IMO there is too much space between two cars placed side by side and I think there is more room for error in your brain tricking you into seeing something your not. That and I think it would be hard to have the same light hitting both cars while viewing them both at the same time.